Pastor Rick Warren's prayers have been answered. His megachurch - the Saddleback Church of Orange County, California - was facing a $900,000 budget shortfall, and he sent out an urgent appeal: "On the last weekend of 2009, our total offerings were less than half of what we normally receive -- leaving us $900,000 in the red for the year, unless you help make up the difference today and tomorrow."Today ABC News is reporting that a flood of small donations has rescued the church.
The church's usual non-holiday Sunday offering is estimated at $600,000 coming from more than 80,000 members at five different church locations.
The pastor shared from the pulpit some of the e-mails he received.
"We're a one-income family, so our resources are limited," one donor wrote. "But God has remained faithful to us with our finances in 2009, and we know He's going to take care of us in 2010, so here is our gift."
Another wrote, "Even though this has been my worst year financially, I still want to help my Church."
I'll defer any comments.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24) ... Pastor Warren is just doing what he can to keep his 80,000 followers from being inconvenienced by being rich. He, on the other hand, is going to have to learn how to squeeze through that tiny gate.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you defer commentary on this story? You usually put your liberal lefty spin on most other postings. Surely you can come up with something for this one, no?
ReplyDeleteI don't understand people who use liberal and lefty as if they were pejoratives. Do conservatives get insulted by being called conservative?
ReplyDeleteI defer comment for a number of reasons - when the implications or relevance of something is so obvious that additional commentary is superfluous, when I'm so gobsmacked or outraged that I can't come up with a family-friendly reply, when I'm trying to plough through hundreds of bookmarks and don't have time to craft a reasonably eloquent analysis, or when there are football games on tv that affect the Vikings playoff chances.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good example of why I am no longer a Christian. That word has become pejorative because of the actions of people who loudly proclaim they are Christian. I think Jesus would not recognize them as such.
ReplyDeleteMinnesotastan -
ReplyDeletePlease do not presume that the implications or relevance of this is so obvious.
I despise, despise with my whole heart, churches that take advantage of people. It isn't a wrong like any other wrong - they have a greater responsibility to do what is right.
I don't know anything about this particular church other than that it is a big church. I don't know what denomination it is and do not care.
I truly hope that the church uses the money it collects to help others and not enrich this pastor. Maybe you know about this guy and know that he clearly abuses those who attend his church.
But did you stop for just a second and consider that maybe the church is helping people? Provides them with hope? Comfort? Community?
Or did you just see "church" and think "Ah,another opportunity to target church-goers and remind people how silly / evil / hypocritical they are?"
There ARE people who profess to be Christians but behave in ways that are anything but. This pastor, whoever he is, may indeed be taking advantage of the very people he has a duty of protecting. I don't know because I'm not familiar with the situation. It's just that every once in a while, I'd love to see folks say something good and positive about people who go to church - and not the churches where absolutely anything goes, where you can believe in anything and behave in any way you want.
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ReplyDeleteI don't understand what the big deal is. Churches make appeals all the time and often from the pulpit. Haven't you seen those giant thermometers in front of churches and other charities showing when they've met their fund raising goals? How is that different?
ReplyDeleteChurches have to pay their electric bills, phone bills, maintenance bills, and mortgages just like everyone else and the money they use only comes from donations from parishioners. Most churches like most charities have experienced a short fall in giving during the recession. Most churches have made major cuts but they often can only cut so far. A mega church has mega bills. Just paying the janitorial staff for a church that size would be expensive. The cleaning staff has to be paid and the church secretaries along with Warren himself. Churches have musical staff, a large church would have a nursery staff during services. Sadly during short falls those needs compete with charitable responsibilities. Pastors wanting to meet all financial responsibilities give an appeal to members sometimes from the pulpit. Sometimes they step down and the deacons do it though I don't see a great difference.
I don't know if Warren is paid by the church or if he received a pay cut. Most pastors have during this recession.
As to the quote about God providing, most religious people believe ultimately all their goods come as gifts from God even if those needs are met through their own employment. The quote is a pretty standard church statement, one I've heard myself frequently.
It is actually a healthy sign that they have received so many small donations. The biggest problem churches and charities have is that most of their money comes from a few large donors. Churches and Charities become dependent on these people who can either have an unfair amount of influence or bring the church or charity to their knees if they leave, stop giving or even suffer financial loss or illness. Most churches and charities prefer to have a wide base of multiple small givers to having a few very wealthy donors.
So much presumption in here. Silly me - I thought when he said "I'll defer comment", I thought he meant he'll defer comment...I guess not.
ReplyDeleteRick Warren wrote the fabulously successful self-help bestseller "The Purpose Driven Life," which has sold over 30 million copies. (He delivered the invocation at Obama's inauguration despite protests over his anti-gay stance. On the other hand, he's pushed the evangelical movement in the direction of more social service and runs various outreach programs, including for treatment of HIV/AIDS.)
ReplyDeleteI don't know anything about his finances, but the royalties from his book (and he's written others that were also quite successful) must be humongous. I'd be surprised if he couldn't have easily coughed up the $900,000 shortfall from his own funds, but it's possible he uses most of his income for other good works.
The church ultimately received $2.4 million in response to his appeal.
Minnesotastan, it isn't as if you're delicately concealing your feelings with your "I'll defer any comment" comment. It wouldn't take you any longer to type "I find this outrageous," and that would be perfectly family friendly, as well as more straightforward.
And Deana, I support people believing in anything they want and doing whatever they choose as long as it isn't hurting somebody else.
Actually arent' the poor people mentioned in the article the church members themselves. How do you separate a church from their members? I feel responsible for the debts and bills of my church and help pay for them by my donations. I'm a poor person rescuing my church every sunday when I put money in the collection plate. I'm also the church since I beleive the church is its members.
ReplyDeleteSwift Loris I don't know anything about Warren's personal finances or how well or poorly his church handles their finances. I just don't see anything wrong with church members paying for the bills of their church or for the pastor asking the members to do so. Most pastor's salaries are voted on by the church members in Evangelical denominations. The budget is passed by vote of the Congregation, having passed that budget they are some what ethicaly obligated to meet their commitments. At least I feel that way about my church.
Again in someways it would be unhealthy for the church to be supported by one rich person even Warren the pastor as opposed to a broad spectrum of members. Though I would expect him to make sacrifices as the congregation is and for all I know he has.
Ah, disappointing - Rick Warren is still awaiting addition over at ministrywatch.org
ReplyDeleteI'd consider Ministry Watch the most credible watchdog site on this subject - they're not financially motivated and they do a lot of digging into megachurches' finances.
There's a lot to be said for transparency when it comes to soliciting funds from one's followers...
Uh! I'm so, so happy I live in Portugal. No Rick Warren or people of his kind. :)... Oh, wait! I think Benedict v.16 is coming here in April. Dang!
ReplyDeletePS. I don't like Anonymous comments. Most of the time they are made by cowards.
Why are so many people happy to give ever more funding to a church which teaches that spousal abuse, while regrettable, is not a reason for divorce? "Sorry honey, I know he broke your arm and kicked you in the face, but that's no reason to divorce. You can get separated, but you can never marry anyone else or find real love or happiness. God says so."
ReplyDeleteOr to a minister who has not only lied, but done so on camera, apparently not remembering that his earlier statements on camera provided instant evidence of his lies? False witness anyone?
I have no issue with members of a church supporting their local minister. But this isn't a local church, this minister is not a man of God, and the people of his gigantic media-oriented congregation give new meaning to the term "flock." Truly they are there to be fleeced.
@MJ Valente -- Some of us post as anonymous because our google names and passwords are not accepted by blogger.com for reasons I haven't been able to determine. And I've tried, because I can't post otherwise. But I do post my initials on my comments.
ReplyDeleteCCL
Horrible how so many can be taken advantage of by so few
ReplyDeleteI have no axe to grind here. Don't know Rick Warren myself. Never been to his church. But I think it is irresponsible for people to jump to conclusions about a person without any real information.
ReplyDeleteA quick search on the subject told me:
"Rick Warren receives no salary from his church" (so, the money isn't for him folks. It's for the church employees... you know, the people who NEED those jobs)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99529977
"Rick Warren gives away most of the royalties he receives from his books" (I read 90%!) - so, he's living what he preaches, not wearing diamond rings and buying 20 cars.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration/Most-Inspiring-Person-Of-The-Year/2005/Most-Inspiring-Person-of-the-Year-2005.aspx
Also, if you think about it, receiving $600k per week from 80,000 church members works out to $7.50 per week on average. That isn't likely to break even the poorest of Americans. Asking for an additional $900k sounds like a lot, but it's only $12.50 per church member.
If we are going to criticize, let's criticize the televangelists who make millions from their ministries and provide no good works in return.
I'm the pastor of a medium-sized rural church in an area that never recovered from the recession of the late 70's, to say nothing of the current downturn. But I have found that when people believe in the mission of the church and are leaving worship on Sunday mornings ready to face the week ahead, they will indeed give as they are able to support the church. I'd love to write a bestseller so I could be a reverse tither and pay back both of the churches I've served the salary and benefits - so as much as I disagree with so much of what Rick Warren's theology leads him to teach and preach, I admire him for this, an expanded version of what Mike reported:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2005/10/Rick-Warrens-Second-Reformation.aspx?p=1
I do wish more ministers would encourage people to use their brains and common sense about the basics of Christian belief, which are so similar to beliefs held by good people of all faiths and no faith at all (quite probably best of all by those unencumbered by a need to please God by any name).
--thefunrev
"If we are going to criticize, let's criticize the televangelists who make millions from their ministries and provide no good works in return."
ReplyDeleteSome preachers are more sincere than others. But all of them are prey to the same temptation, and tugged by the same strings: their income and profit depends on their effectiveness as preachers.