An atheist has won the right to have his baptism removed from Church of England records after claiming he was too young to give his consent to the ceremony... Now 56 and living in Croydon, he said he wanted parish records amended to note he did not consent to the baptism in 1953.If he's an atheist who doesn't believe in the validity of the baptism, then what need does he feel exists to have it annulled? Methinks the man doth protest too much.
He was told that his baptism cannot be deleted because it is a matter of historical record. He then secured a "de-baptism" certificate produced by the National Secular Society (NSS), rejecting "superstitions" or the idea of original sin.
It reads: "I reject all its creeds and other such superstitions in particular the perfidious belief that any baby needs to be cleansed of original sin."
Via Arbroath.
I used to think the same: why would you need to be "de-baptized" if you don't believe in it? Why would you even care... well, in fact, it is important. In the same way I would not want anyone to speak in my name in any activity if I don't agree with the collective view, the same way I refuse to be mentionned in a book as being a member of a church. If you stay baptized, the catholic church counts you as a member, and I hate the idea of being a non-voluntary member in any kind of organization.
ReplyDeletenext thing you know the guy will want to be 'uncircumsised' seeing there is no point to... well you get the point
ReplyDeleteI just like to remember that if there was no God, then we wouldn't have Atheists.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with wanting your details removed from the records of an organisation you never wanted to be part of?
ReplyDeleteMaybe things are different in America, but in England we have the right to know what data is being held about us and can order the person holding the data to remove it from their records.
I first saw this story several weeks ago and it was then that I realised - because I was baptised at 5 months old, my name is in church records and on paper, I'm listed as a Methodist. I'm not a Christian and haven't been since I was a small child too young to think for myself.
So before long, it's not just atheists whose data will be removed from church records. Those of us who were indoctrinated into Christianity as children then found other religions can do so too! I don't want to be associated with those people, their actions or their beliefs.
If someone baptized you (or equivalent) as a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Satanist, and you did not believe in that religion, would you have a problem with it?
ReplyDeleteBill 'Hunt' said: If someone baptized you (or equivalent) as a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Satanist, and you did not believe in that religion, would you have a problem with it?
ReplyDeleteYes, I would have a problem with that Bill. Do you have a problem with that, Bill?
I'll jump back in to the thread here. If someone announced to me that I had been rebaptized as an honorary Mormom or had been declared an official Jew of Muslim, I would say "You're batshit crazy."
ReplyDeleteThere's no sphere of rationality in which the behavior of a religious fanatic influences my actual existence or my spiritual affiliation. A Wiccan can declare me to be an honorary member, but that doesn't make me so.
Perhaps my viewpoint is too shallow. I don't understand the fuss.
While I agree that the ceremony means nothing, the fact that a group of people I strongly dislike and wouldn't trust as far as I can throw are holding personal information on me does matter.
ReplyDeleteAs for your comment about Wiccans being religious fanatics, you couldn't be more wrong. Wiccans are morally opposed to proselytising and would never attempt to initiate someone who didn't come to the coven in perfect love and perfect trust, of their own free will and with a full understanding of what they were getting into.
Don't call us fanatics and don't insult us by implying that we would break our own oaths and ethics by performing such a ritual without someone's consent. Christians do that, Wiccans do not.
Isn't it a bit like a ballot? If you think about it, the catholic church can pretty much say, based on the number of people baptized, that x millions of people are catholic, even though people feel the are not afiliated with the church. How would you react if for instance, any political party were to say that they represent you, even though you never voted for them? To me, it's the same.
ReplyDeleteSo indeed, no big fuss about it, but I quite disagree with anyone claiming to represent me.
As for any religion, wiccans or so, duh, that's all non-sense. Anything trying to explain the world with "supernatural forces", out of the imagination of man, is a total nonsense.
Amazing how religion is a sensitive issue. Believers and non believers will never get along.
it makes perfect sense.
ReplyDeletehaving your name taken off records of something based on lies is wise.
Mademoiselle Titam: How dare you call my religion nonsense? What do you know of it? Clearly not very much if you think we believe in "..."supernatural forces", out of the imagination of man...""Amazing how religion is a sensitive issue." Yes, religion is indeed a sensitive issue. Especially when people like you say that any beliefs which differ from your own are 'nonsense' and basically imply that anyone who isn't an atheist is an idiot.
ReplyDeleteYou don't share my beliefs, fine. But there's no need to be so downright rude about it!
I have to agree with Stan, providing of course, that the offending individuals did not possess sensitive information about me. If I do not share their faith, then it and their actions are meaningless to me. Besides, perhaps it might increase my chances. While I'm not expecting 72 virgins awaiting me upon my demise, I wouldn't exactly object either...unless they were 72 Catholic nuns with shotguns. On second thought, my wife would get mad at me. Guess I'll just keep to one religion.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the big deal of being baptized. Who care if that's not the religion you are now? You were a child then and as a child, you basically have to do what your parents want. I mean, for crying out loud, most children are baptized as infants. Are you seriously gonna let something that happened to you at x amount of months affect who you are later on in life? What happens down later on down when you decide you didn't care for the high school you went to? Are you gonna give your diploma back? Geez, people are so stupid!
ReplyDeleteUm.... no Brian, if there was no God then everyone would be an Atheist.
ReplyDeleteAtheist... a non-theist, I believe. Doesn't believe in a deity/God. If a God doesn't exist, then theres no God to believe in.
You say it as if its a bad thing to be an atheist - as if a lack of God would at least have its upsides. Very revealing.
I think it'd be great if there were no thought of God ever - we wouldnt be having all these arguments and could just get on with life.
Sorry Abigail, but Mademoiselle Titam has every right to call your religion nonsense.
ReplyDeleteAnd seriously, thats all she said - 'nonsense'.
We all have the right to an opinion, and the problem with religion is that someone it is on this plane where it is above criticism or debate. Why should it be immune?
Seriously, when you say 'how dare you call my faith nonsense' you're saying that we have no right to debate or have an opinion about your beliefs about the world.
If it were politics, then you wouldn't have reacted so strongly would you?
I reckon you would feel pretty easy with saying that the atheist non-belief in a God is sad and wrong, and we're all gonna live an amoral and unhappy life.
GASP, how dare you!!
One last point - I think its important because some people take their labels seriously. A person has the right not to be officially labeled as belonging to a religion if they don't wish to be.
ReplyDeleteBut yeh, you can't change the past. Just make up for it now by denouncing it.
"some people take their labels seriously. A person has the right not to be officially labeled as belonging to a religion."
ReplyDeleteEveryone takes their labels seriously, the thing is that many people think that religion is innocuous or good. But they forget that for some of us, many (if not all) religions are worse than nazism.
So i think it is ok to leave a historical mark that you don't approve said organization.
By the way, i did something better, according to canonical law (catholic), you can get excomulgated by several means.
One of them is to tape record a confession, so i pulled a tautological trick, i went to a confesion booth, and i recorded myself saying "I'm excomulgated" then the priest went "what do you mean" and i said "i don't approve of your murderous history, so i'm tape recording this conversation"
You can't change the past, but you can build a better future. Love and compassion comes from you, not some outside source.