I don't want to invest a lot of $ into this endeavor. Would it be possible to use something like the cable shown above from Ion to transfer the data and then process it with GarageBand on the Mac, and burn to CDs, or are there features about usb turntables that make them valuable for a project like this.
Does anyone have practical experience with doing this? Tips?
hi, thank you for your time and effort putting this blog together.
ReplyDeleteI have been through the process of digitising records on a mac.
I found that the easiest program to use in conjunction with the cable shown, is 'final vinyl'. simple to use and great results
regards, Maloo, Sydney
I typed out a long comment that got eaten. Try this link: http://www.macinstruct.com/node/131
ReplyDeleteI use the ION Power Play LP USB turntable with its accompanying software EZ Vinyl Coverter (under $40.00 from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/PowerPlay-USB-Powered-Vinyl---MP3-Turntable/dp/B0036P5SRG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299269432&sr=8-1) on my PC. You must have Apple iTunes (free) as well.
ReplyDeleteI have transferred analog to my computer with a similar gadget, and it worked fine. Aparently you get a better quality signal by going into the computer with a USB cable (as shown in your post) instead of using the line-in. LPs are analog, so I can't see how a USB turn table would make any difference, other than if you didn't have a turn table already.
ReplyDeleteThe cable would also allow you to transfer tapes, mini discs or any other source which can be tansfered with an analog cable. Anything which has a headphone out can be transferred analog.
I haven't tried Garage Band, but if you can't do it with that software, you can also try Audacity. It is open source software, very popular and is available for Windows, Mac and Linux. It can export as MP3, but not sure about CD. Then there is Polderbits software which has a free full-function trial period.
If you do a google for "LP to CD" or "analog to CD" you get lots of info.
As it were, I transferred my LPs to Mini Disc many years ago, and from there to the computer, when I got one, via that cable gadget using its own bundled software (Soundblaster, I think).
Maybe you can pick up one of those cables used on ebay and try it out. A cheap experiment which probably works anyway. People may sell them on after transferring all their old vinyls.
I do somehow understand that you want your music in a digital format since it is easy to play.
ReplyDeleteHonestly I'd go for downloading in that case than...
But for the sake of quality I wouldn't do it! I still think analog music sounds just a tat more alive than some digital format! In fact I'm enjoying it right now ;)
I think that the combination of the Ion cable and Garageband should work fine. I use GB for multi-track recording, but there's no reason why it wouldn't work well for recording stereo LP tracks.
ReplyDeleteThank you everyone for some excellent comments/suggestions/links.
ReplyDeleteDepending on how much music you want to convert, it might be cheaper (and a lot less time-consuming) to just buy the songs you want. Most music is $.79 to $.99 on amazon, or itunes...
ReplyDeleteI've done it without any device like that. With just a $1 cable you can go right out of the back of your amplifier and into the line in of your PC. Then you can use Audacity to record it. The program also has options for removing background static, any loud pops, and can easily break the album into tracks to export into a MP3s. Quick, simple, and very cheap.
ReplyDeleteIf you already have a nice turntable with a good cartridge and a decent pre-amp, then it makes little sense to buy one of those USB 'tables. You could use something like that Ion gizmo or, potentially, just your sound-card if it has an auxiliary input.
ReplyDeleteFrom a technical perspective, the Ion may be at a slight advantage because the USB power rails are cleaner than those on the PCI bus (in my experience). But the actual ADCs may also be an important factor - however, it's hard to say whether the Ion or a generic sound card would have a better quality ADC.
The software should have no effect on the quality of the recording, provided you set it up right.
Unless your albums have been kept in a vacuum and never played, they wear out in addition to getting damaged with scratches. The fidelity is never going to be as good as a good digital mix from original tapes or by extensive studio processing.
ReplyDeleteAlso, copying the songs is very time consuming, especially if you want to enter the MP3 tags and clean-up any clicks and pops, etc.
If you can find the music online, I would just download it instead. Life is too short to sit in front of the computer for days on end just recording songs, and then ending up with low quality in the end.
As a previous poster mentioned, ADC's are very important (Analog - Digital Converter). Different algorithm's can be used to take the analog wave and break it into digital bits.
ReplyDeleteI just replaced a radio in my car that has a very nice and fully amplified sound system. It never sounded right at higher volumes. It was the ADC in the radio. Made everything sound very tinny and horrible. Now it sounds full and rich like it is supposed to.
And be aware that vinyl records have a reduced bass level recorded... all phono amplifiers have a pre-determined built-in bass boost that compensates for that. The reason they do this has to do with physical limitations of the grooves in the record itself. So anything that would go straight from the player to a computer might lose this unless the program compensates for it, knowing it is dealing with the output of a record.
The key thing in using the output of a turntable is impedance matching. unlike every other music device (tape, cd, mp3 player, etc...) the phonograph inputs to your stereo are different and have a special impedance profile. So it's important to make sure the device you plug it into is made for a phonograph.
ReplyDeletethe easy way to do this is to use your existing stereo then feed the headphone outputs into your computer's microphone inputs. the stereo's phono inputs will have the impedance match. and a good sound card (like all macs and most PCs) will be able to digitize this.
Just don't overdrive (too loud) the input.
As an avid reader of a reader of your blog i wish to add my bit of salt.
ReplyDeleteThe combination of your amplifier rec out via an iMic
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic
And then in your Mac feed the signal to Audacity which is a free and great app. Final Vinyl is fine but simple but lacks editing modes for cutting of heads and or tails and even boosting
volume and frequencies.
Wow.
ReplyDeleteOne of the unappreciated benefits of being a blogger, especially with a readership like this one has, is that one can get all sort of free advice on a huge variety of subjects.
Later on this spring or summere I'll tackle our vinyl/digital project and post the results.
Thanks to all -
stan
I wanted to follow up on my earlier advice. The anonymous poster that suggested using the "rec" out puts on the stereo is right. If you have any pre-amp level outputs on the stereo such as the old-fashioned "rec-out" used for tape recording then use those. those should have the perfect line-level not to over or under-drive the headphone input of the computer.
ReplyDeleteA few more owrds on my waring about phono impedance matching as these sorts of details probably are the sort that intrigue you.
Phono truntable outputs are unlike any other modern sound device output. All modern devices are electonically equalized to account for the vaguries of the medium. For example, the output of a tape player is just a voltage you can measure anyway you want. It's frequency response is perfectly flat. That is even though the tampe itself ins not a flat response at the physics level, the tape player knows this and equalizes it back to flat before it gwts to the output.
Now Phonographs are old technology. The output is linear to the physical response of the phono cartrige coil pickups which is NOT linear to the music.
Why? well this is where it gets interesting. A groove on a record can only be so wide. Low frequency audio of music would, if linearm have too large a side-to-side displacement of the needle to work on a record. therefore before it goes on to the record, the low frequencies are attenuated.
When the sound comes off, record the amplified needs to have a correction to it's frequncy response to boost these attenuated low frequencies. This is called equalization.
Thus the phono-inputs on your stereo are different from all the other inputs. You can for example attach a cd-layer to the tape-input and no distortion occurs. the other inputs assume an unequalized input so they are interchangeable (mostly). while the phono input has an equalizer. so it is special.
If phonographs had been invented in the modern age I'm sure the standard would have been to have the phonograph itself do the equalization. But that's not how it evolved.
As someone who has gotten a great deal out of this blog, I'm excited to be able to give just a little knowledge back. I've worked in audio off and on for a decade, and I'll first give a thumbs-up to all that Charlie said about phonograph ins-and-outs, and their quirks relative to other audio sources.
ReplyDeleteWhile Apple products tend to be of reasonably high quality, their audio inputs would still never be considered high enough quality to use in an any professional-level recording capacity barring an emergency. ALL audio jacks on computers are a compromise between cost and quality. Despite the ubiquity of Garage Band, the vast majority of users are never going to use those ports for more than plugging in a mic for Skype, and since most machines are coming with built-in microphones these days, there is even less incentive to include high quality hardware.
As others have pointed out, the best way to go with your existing gear is to use the audio outputs from the stereo system (not the turntable itself) as your source. The expense in this case is choosing an external interface. These can eat up any budget, but I would consider something along the lines of the two-channel USB offerings from Tascam, Presonus, or MAudio (in order of my preferences). They'll typically be around the $100 mark, and whatever you get should include two LINE LEVEL inputs - preferably without microphone preamps.
These interfaces are still consumer-level equipment, but they're meant to cater to consumers who are going to be critical of their audio quality. The standalone phono-cable solution is really going to see its best market with those who haven't developed a critical ear. Based on this blog, I'm going to go ahead and say that the analysis contained hearin suggests that critical listening is entirely within your grasp.
Finally, always remember that even if you spent $10,000 on this project, the results would be subjective. There is no correct, 100% accurate conversion process from an analog medium to a digital one. Trust your ears, and if the music needs a little EQ from Garage Band, then don't hesitate. I personally think it's worth investing $100 into a project like this, but if you're not so inclined, you'll at least know what you're getting into.
Thank you, Ben. I'm not sure what "two-channel USB offerings... should include two LINE LEVEL inputs - preferably without microphone preamps" means, but I'll take that sentence along with me to an audio store when it's time to get the cabling.
ReplyDelete:.)
Ahh, well, if you should be pursuing this project during your intermission, I'll briefly elaborate:
ReplyDeleteIn order to interface with a recording medium, audio signals must be boosted in voltage from whatever they are when they are generated, be they at instrument-level, microphone-level, or phonograph-level (all similar) to what is known as line level, which is usually of significantly higher voltage, though still not enough to drive a speaker - that requires an amplifier. The devices that boost the voltage from the source-level to line level are the preamplifiers, or "preamps."
Your stereo has these, and they're probably better at handling your turntable than what you might get if you dropped $30 on a device that also includes the hardware, and the analog-to-digital converters. Most recording interfaces have preamps too, but they're usually for microphones. You want to avoid going through these if you can, because they'll just color the sound, and if you're running through the preamps on the stereo, you're already putting out line level. Might as well go straight to the converters - through line level inputs.
The two-channel thing just refers to the fact that the interfaces can record two channels - or a single stereo channel.
This approach will require a little more software configuring and straight-up recording-type efforts than the USB turntable, etc, but I personally think it would be worth it - and I'm nowhere near the snob that some are. I like tinkering though. Your interest in learning some new software might be less than my own. It's always subjective. Always a judgment call.
Thank you again, Ben.
ReplyDelete