Extended excerpts from a story in the New York Post:
Two German teenagers planning to explore the US on vacation were thrown in jail and then booted from the country after Customs and Border Protection found their loosely planned trip “suspicious.”Charlotte Pohl, 19, and Maria Lepere, 18, arrived in Honolulu, Hawaii, on March 18, with plans to travel around the islands for five weeks before heading to California and then Costa Rica after their high school graduation, according to the German outlet Ostsee Zeitung.However, the teens made the mistake of not booking their accommodations for the entire duration of their stay in Hawaii, which raised a red flag for US Customs and Border Protection, despite both of them having obtained an Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA).The teens said they were questioned at Honolulu Airport for hours before they were allegedly subjected to full-body scans and strip searches, according to the outlet.They were then given green prison uniforms and placed in a holding cell with long-term detainees, some of whom were reportedly accused of serious crimes.The young travelers said they allegedly had to sleep on thin, moldy mattresses and were warned by guards to avoid expired food.The next morning, the teens were told they were being booted from the country and taken back to Honolulu Airport, where they requested to be sent to Japan...There has been a significant decrease in European travelers visiting the States over the past few months, despite Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s efforts to ease concerns among foreigners wanting to travel to America. “I would say that if you’re not coming to the United States to join a Hamas protest or to come here and tell us about how right Hamas is or to tell us about — stir up conflict on our campuses and create riots in our street and vandalize our universities, then you have nothing to worry about,” Rubio said earlier this month.
I understand some readers consider the New York Post a rag, but I have no doubt about the validity of the account, and while I understand there may be "extenuating circumstances," I can't imagine any nuance that would have required strip-searching these young women and locking them up on the basis of their not having booked all their reservations ahead of time.
Oh well.
ReplyDeleteWe're past the scalpel stage of immigration enforcement. The sheer volume of unwanted migrants, both legal and illegal, requires the hammer if you want to solve the problem at all. I'm not happy it happened, but I'm not happy this level of enforcement is necessary in the first place.
Of course the hypocrisy of reactions like this is that for decades of not centuries, Americans and the American government welcomed people in, but now somehow the immigrants must pay the price for showing up and doing the work Americans don't want to do because they're too lazy (in the case of agricultural work) or too lazy to qualify for (in the case of coding). The biggest irony is that somehow immigrants must pay the price for American politicians not updating their immigration system in decades. You voted for inaction. And now you punish the immigrants for being here "unwanted".
DeleteGood luck the coming years. Life will be harder because of this racist notion that the people that you all asked to come here to do your work are somehow "unwanted". Also, please send the Statue of Liberty back to France. She's a totally undocumented immigrant gift.
Just realize then next time your order some food to your front door, that that food was picked from the fields by immigrants, prepared in a restaurant kitchen by immigrants, and delivered to your door by an immigrant driver using an app programmed by an immigrant coder.
Apparently that was all unwanted labor.
How are legal migrants "unwanted", and how are they a problem?
DeleteIt's not moral or useful, let alone necessary.
DeleteLot of wage slavery proponents in the Democratic party these days. Heaven forbid we pay an American a living wage to pick your avocadoes.
DeleteAs for legal migrants, H1Bs have inarguably driven down wages in the tech industry, and forced out domestic workers in droves.
Do you have proof that H1B workers are actually forcing out domestic workers in the tech industry or is the real issue a lack of qualified workers? Because Republicans keep cutting education making it harder to find citizens with the necessary skills. But of course Trump loved the poorly educated.
DeleteYou are conflating two issues here:
Delete1: People. Where are these hundreds of thousands of Americans that have been forced out of the tech industry? They are not there. It's a matter of comparing the number of high school and college grads with tech degrees to the number of tech jobs. It's off by at least an order of magnitude. Similarly, there are not hundreds of thousands of Americans waiting to go and break their backs in agriculture.
2: Wages. The argument over wages is a bit more complicated. But in short, if agricultural workers were paid decent wages, food would become unaffordable for many low-income Americans. This is a complicated knot to untie with few pretty solutions, which is why politicians don't want to touch it.
The tech wages is similarly more complicated than you make it sound because H1Bs are only a small part of wage mix. When it comes to H1Bs, you can pretty much slice and dice the data any way you want to and get to the answer you want. And all that without adding anything useful to the debate.
The easiest argument against H1Bs pushing down tech worker wages is that if tech companies wanted to save money, they'd be doing that work in Bangalore. And they aren't. They prefer going through the painful process of dealing with all the immigration paperwork for all those employees instead of just outsourcing the labor.
Americans are not too lazy to work, but they're not going to do the most grueling work for wages that are even lower than the undocumented worker is willing to accept; that is, what would be required to out-compete an immigrant. Also, the whole notion that we'd starve to death without waves of immigrants feeding us is sheer nonsense. This is a question of food cost, not starvation. Bottom line, immigration is good for the ruling class, because it undercuts the economic power of the working class (the counter-argument is that cheap and abundant labor raises all boats, which seems to me to be a version of trickle down), and good for demographically driven Democrats in their hopes of boosting numbers. That's a hell of a combination. I once had an ugly conversation with a woman who recruited nurses from the Philippines and South Africa. She saw nothing wrong with draining-off skilled medical personnel from these countries, while we systematically fail to educate enough of our own willing citizens. I fully agree with Iron Horse on H1Bs--which greatly benefit corporate donors to the Democratic Party, along with the Trumpian capital class. If I were king, I'd declare a general amnesty for everyone in the US while at the same time placing a ten year ban on immigration, legal and otherwise. Reevaluate in 2035 (if humans are still around): How much progress has been made in ending the scourges of poverty; the housing crisis (again, we don't need a constant influx of immigrants in order to produce shelter), etc. Have we made any progress on the wealth gap? Fixed our medical system? Is assimilation occurring? Is our house in order?
DeleteNone of what you've said addresses your claim that legal migrants are "unwanted". If they're being hired for well-paying jobs they're clearly wanted.
DeleteAs for illegal migrants perhaps Republicans should push for cracking down on businesses that hire them and advocate for better wages instead of relaxing child labor laws and gutting education.
US immigration has always been funny about demanding a street address for travelers. In the 90s, some Europeans friends of mine had a conference in Toronto and thought it would be fun to circle Lake Ontario. Nice road trip for a day. Well, that did not compute with the US immigration officers in Niagara. They needed an address, despite the fact that they were leaving the same day. Note, this was pre-9/11. In the end, they got in, and just had a very weird experience, a lovely day trip and a good story to tell.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I've always thought of the address as a very silly way of keeping track of people, because nothing stops people of ill intent to give a wrong address, and many people of good intent may travel onward after a night.
These ladies got in similar trouble. They figured they'd find a camping to put their tent up after arriving and didn't have it planned out ahead of time. I think it was also an issue that they were planning to stay a bit longer than a regular vacation which led to accusations of wanted to work illegally. Now of course, a simple explanation should suffice, maybe followed by a warning about not working without a permit, but apparently, that's not how it works anymore.
I've read several accounts from Europe where travel agents indicate that travel to the US is down about 20%. Apparently that is a very large part of "pleasure travel" where people are free to pick other destinations without consequences.
Remember there's a lot of business travel and family oriented travel where people can choose not to go, but there is a bigger price to pay - no business or family visit.
But that weekend trip to NYC or beach week in Miami can also be a weekend trip to Toronto or Mexico City. Or just Lisbon. Or Athens. Or a beach week in the Caribbean.
I don't think many Americans realize how much the mood towards America is changing outside the US. US foreign policy has swung all over the place the last few decades with W Bush (War on Terror), Obama (focus on Asia), Trump (US #1!) and Biden (no no we're all friends) having quite different policies. The realization is currently that these changes keep coming and can not be ignored anymore with diplomatic niceties.
Simply put: The US is not a reliable partner anymore.
That's the kind of bad PR money just can't out-buy. Rubio translation: If you have any objection to Zionism or Israeli-US imperialism or apartheid or genocide or...expect to lose your rights in the USA.
ReplyDelete"Rubio translation: If you have any objection to Zionism or Israeli-US imperialism or apartheid or genocide or, expect to lose your rights in the USA. Then, when everyone hates the Jews, we'll demonize them next and continue on, one, or more, groups at a time, until we can come after you for whatever the hell we want." -- There, fixed that for you.
DeleteReaperD: I see no evidence for the claim that there is some kind of "hate the Jews" progression in the US. On the contrary, there is a ridiculous level of support on both the right and the left. If you're looking for a scapegoat, try the homeless population. The Nazis began with the "vagrants" in 1933--six years before the Jews. I see the same thing happening now, as the Constitution is shredded in a quest to criminalize and remove the visibly poor, as opposed to addressing housing needs--and wealth inequality in general. Very dangerous and mostly below the radar. Trump has a plan to move the homeless to tent camps. I fear this will not be resisted by more than a few. I doubt the Jewish community was particularity active in resisting the round-up of vagrants in 1933, for whatever that's worth.
DeleteLike many of our friends, this foreigner will not be visiting for at least four years.
ReplyDeleteWe will never return because of the ridiculous aggressive tipping culture after being followed outside because our tip was seen as not big enough. In Europe we do not tip, people get paid.
ReplyDeleteWait... they're trying to make those tax free now!! /
DeleteI won't visit the States anytime soon. And so is every friend here of mine (I live in Austria). Farewell USA - it was nice for how long it lastet.Maybe in some years from now again.
ReplyDeleteOur Canadian friends are responding to recent border and Xitter activities in two ways.
ReplyDeleteFirst, they are outright cancelling travel to and purchases from the United States. The effects of this on border communities and businesses have been reported by the Seattle Times. Besides stores and bars, there has been a post-office-box business in which Canadians drive across the border to pick up packages ordered from US suppliers. No longer.
Second, they are no longer traveling via the US and switching to Canada-based airports. In the past, it was common to take a short flight or drive to the US to get to airports with better prices or schedules, thereby injecting Canadian travelers into the US airline systems. No longer.
Some people will argue that these are short-term fluctuations and that historical norms will return. There is no sign of any such change and, in fact, the trend seems to be intensifying. Canadian stores are continuing to destock American products - not just fail to reorder, but pulling products off the shelf to return to distributors. Yesterday's elections are an exclamation point on this trend.
When I write "Xitter activities", I include the repeated references to Canada as the "51st state". The Canadians repond "Elbows up!", a reference to ice hockey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9yWA4TUII
That just doesn't pass the smell test for me. First, it doesn't sound like we'd treat teenage girls that way. Further, I can allow that it might indeed look suspicious if two teenage girls are traveling the world BY THEMSELVES. Boys? Yeah, maybe. Girls? Well, that doesn't sound very thoughtful, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIf it DID happen--and I'm not saying it did--there is surely more to the story than we are getting.
I can understand that you have some doubts about the validity of the story. Here is the original report in a German site -
Deletehttps://www.ostsee-zeitung.de/lokales/rostock/rostockerinnen-landen-in-trumps-abschiebeknast-in-den-usa-haben-uns-so-machtlos-gefuehlt-IZTSKHTUI5DY7D7JVRYTZP64AE.html
If that is behind a paywall, here is a link to the archived version -
https://www.ostsee-zeitung.de/lokales/rostock/rostockerinnen-landen-in-trumps-abschiebeknast-in-den-usa-haben-uns-so-machtlos-gefuehlt-IZTSKHTUI5DY7D7JVRYTZP64AE.html
Auf Deutsch, but you can copy/paste into Google Translate, which I did -
"With their hands handcuffed behind their backs, the two are taken by car to a "center," as the security guards call it. Deportation detention until their Hawaiian Airlines flight to Tokyo departed the next day. "At the time, we didn't know it was a prison," says Maria Lepère.
"We were searched with metal detectors, our entire bodies were scanned, we had to stand naked in front of the police officers and were looked through," reports Charlotte Pohl. "Then we were given green prison clothes and put in a prison cell with serious criminals." Even a murderer who had been imprisoned for 18 years was among the women. A Dutch woman who had "taken them under her wing" told them this...
What I can't understand, AaronS, is your doubt that teenage girls would travel abroad by themselves, but that it would be ok if boys did so.
If you can find "more to the story than we are getting" please do so and share, especially any reason for stripping the girls naked for examination.
Correction: here is the archived version of the German report -
Deletehttps://archive.is/HbDXI
Here's the closest I can find to a "justification", from Newsweek:
DeleteCBP Assistant Commissioner for Public Affairs Hilton Beckham told Newsweek: "Another false narrative. These travelers weren't deported—they were denied entry after attempting to enter the U.S. under false pretenses. One used a Visitor visa, the other the Visa Waiver Program. Both claimed they were touring California but later admitted they intended to work—something strictly prohibited under U.S. immigration laws for these visas."
Charlotte Pohl told Ostsee Zeitung: "We wanted to travel spontaneously. Just like we did in Thailand and New Zealand."
"We were scanned with metal detectors, the whole body was scanned, we had to stand naked in front of the police officers and were looked through," Pohl said. "Then we got green prison clothes and were put in a prison room with serious criminals."
Germany's Foreign Ministry says on its website: "Neither a valid ESTA authorization nor a valid U.S. visa constitutes a right to entry into the USA. The final decision regarding entry is made by the US.. border official. It is recommended that you bring proof of your return journey (e.g., flight booking) upon entry.
I don't see that any of that justifies the stripping naked.
More here from Hawaii Travel News:
Deletehttps://beatofhawaii.com/why-these-hawaii-travelers-were-jailed-and-deported/
It is really normal for young Germans to go travelling when they finish school, and not unusual for 19yo Germans to travel on their own or with friends, male or female. When living in New Zealand and Australia there were loads of young German backpackers.
DeleteThe difference between Democrats and Republicans....
ReplyDeleteIf someone finds a coral snake in their yard, the Democrats want to pay for it to be removed and released into the wild.
The Republicans just take a shovel to it.
No one is against immigrants. We're against ILLEGAL immigrants. That is something that Democrats don't want to talk about, so they try not to use the word "illegal," but instead nicer terms like "undocumented" or the such.
It used to be that when a person had a tattoo, the FBI looked at it as a marker for other risky behavior (it probably still is). That is, such a person will likely do other risky things like illicit drugs, crime, premarital sex, etc. (I'm not sure how close the linkage is in today's world, but let's just say you see a lot more tattoos in MMA than you do at church.)
The point being that if you will come to America illegally, skipping ahead of the many others who have been waiting patiently in line, well, it might be that that, too, is a marker that other illegal things will take place.
I'm not saying that's how it always is, but it certainly makes sense.
"No one is against immigrants. We're against ILLEGAL immigrants. That is something that Democrats don't want to talk about, so they try not to use the word "illegal," but instead nicer terms like "undocumented" or the such."
DeleteWe should list all of the US Presidents who have employed and had to fire such workers in their professional and official lives and threatened to "go after" such employers.
I used to visit the US but not anymore. Too many fascist wannabes strutting with what little power they have. There are much nicer, much friendlier and much safer places to spend your travel bucks in.
ReplyDeleteCanadian here. For family reasons I needed to drive a car from BC to Ontario (western Canada to central Canada) this month. Prior to Trump and the nonsense about the 51st state and tariffs, I would have made the trip through the US. It's faster. Not this time. I stayed in Canada and my vacation travel will not include visits to the US for the foreseeable future. I am not alone in this. Most, if not all, family and friends are avoiding the US.
ReplyDeleteHello. Genuinely curious how a BC to Ontario road trip is faster through the U.S.
DeleteMaybe they will answer if they come back to revisit the post, but I just checked on Google Maps for routing from Vancouver to Toronto. 3 hours faster via U.S.
DeleteLearn something new every day.
DeleteThat's the advantage of the Interstate highways with straighter lines and higher speeds. Although I did just now look at Google Maps for Vancouver to Toronto and it went to Milwaukee and then straight across Lake Michigan. The Canadian route went through Edmonton instead of Calgary and took a northern route through Ontario. Bottom line is to know where you want to go and don't blindly trust Google Maps.
ReplyDeleteOne Australian travelling to the US had a bad experience recently, he wrote a letter to the Sydney Morning Herald who then published an article about him. This is an excerpt from the article: - "One Traveller reader has vowed never to return to the US after he was detained last month for eight hours at New York’s John F. Kennedy airport, while his laptop and smartphone were examined by US border guards. He was finally deported back to Australia.
ReplyDeleteHis “crime”? Taking a more circuitous route to the US to save on his airfare, though he stresses he was not accused of any actual “wrongdoing”.
“I feel like returning to the US under the current administration would be the equivalent of going back for your hat after escaping a devastating house fire,” says the reader, an Australian citizen who asked not to be named. “I have no wish to be burnt again. He arrived in the US following a 24-hour flight from Sydney to New York via Hong Kong, with Florida his planned final destination. From there he intended to board a cruise and says he is now $15,000 out of pocket due to the cruise line’s refusal to refund his fare.
The reason he believes he was detained and then deported was not due to any visa irregularities but for what he considers a perverse justification. Eight hours later, after three interview teams and extensive examination of my laptop and iPhone, [the decision of US immigration] was that I had come to the US on a very unusual route from Australia via Asia (I flew premium economy and Cathay Pacific had the cheapest airfare).”
Another traveller also had a bad experience as published in the Guardian: - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-with-us-working-visa-detained-insulted-deported