tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post8969124392377300618..comments2024-03-28T23:22:41.774-05:00Comments on TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): Considering atheism as a religionMinnesotastanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-69474100009677745832013-03-27T21:21:17.354-05:002013-03-27T21:21:17.354-05:00I'm not one of the faithful, but I'll resp...I'm not one of the faithful, but I'll respond to your last challenge. <br />"What was it like before you were born? Was it terrible? Was it torture? Of course not, it was just a lack of existence."<br /><br />There is of course no data, no verifiable objective support for your assertion that there was a lack of existence before we were born. We could have existed previously and not been aware of it. It is your presumption (and nothing else) that we did not exist in a previous life.<br /><br />Your turn.Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-36081970575645466582013-03-27T18:48:50.080-05:002013-03-27T18:48:50.080-05:00Atheism is not a relgion, because it requires beli...Atheism is not a relgion, because it requires belief, not faith. There is a difference. Let me explain.<br /><br />Belief is accepting a fact even though you can't verify it personally, because you either were not present or do not possess the knowledge necessary to verify it personally. You trust in peer review and the expertise of others to confirm claim that are made. Basically, belief is falsifiable, so you can trust it, but you do not have to claim it is 100% accurate. Depending on the amount of available evidence you can adjust the extent to which you assume that it is true.<br /><br />Faith is absolute certainty of unfalsifiable, metaphysical claims which are supported by little or no evidence, and often contradict known provable elements that can be tested. Originally faith was used as a way to explain the areas of reality that science has yet to comprehend. But now, as the religious hold to those primitive explanations in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, faith has become a sort of existentialist impulse to deny reality whenever it conflicts with the a specific ancient mythology.<br /><br />Atheism is not a religion, because science does not claim to be 100% accurate. It develops, and is our best CURRENT understanding of the universe. But since the mysteries of the cosmos are so vast and confounding, it is unlikely that science will ever reach an a final unified theory.<br /><br />Religion is the assertion that the explanation of our universe is simple like a children's story, and that the purpose of life is to be totally subservient to whatever imaginary deity you happened to be raised to believe in. And that life goes on forever, so you don't have to be afraid of death.<br /><br />But my question to the faithful is? What was it like before you were born? Was it terrible? Was it torture? Of course not, it was just a lack of existence. I don't claim to KNOW what happens after we die, but if it's the same lack of awareness that exists before we are born, then I don't fear it at all. And neither should you.Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217478793857604323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-65630007063343920522013-02-11T21:58:12.873-06:002013-02-11T21:58:12.873-06:00You don't get to decide the definition of reli...You don't get to decide the definition of religion. It's been defined. It can't be changed without affecting the very ideology itself. Totally unlike my "non-belief" system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-2130804487223012962013-02-11T17:54:53.040-06:002013-02-11T17:54:53.040-06:00You don't have to prove it to believe it. But ...You don't have to prove it to believe it. But if you want to convince someone else this is a reasonable position I would expect you to be prepared to lay out your evidence and reasoning.<br /><br />But I suspect your belief in extra-terrestrial life is more evidence and reason based, rather than faith based anyway (feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken). For me it comes down to figuring out exactly how much of a fluke life arising on Earth was, the rest is just statistics when dealing with a fantastically large number "dice rolls".<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-1276444894637853592013-02-11T14:43:20.595-06:002013-02-11T14:43:20.595-06:00So if I tell you I believe in extraterrestrial lif...So if I tell you I believe in extraterrestrial life, you would place a burden of proof upon me? Why? Why can't I just believe that there's life in the universe? Why do I have to prove it?Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-48539344858635032642013-02-11T12:03:43.102-06:002013-02-11T12:03:43.102-06:00"Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hai..."Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color."<br /><br />If I told you I believe there's an invisible pink unicorn in the room, is it a matter of faith that you don't believe the same? The burden of proof is on the believer--failure to provide that proof doesn't mean that the person who doubts your assertion is on equal footing in terms of belief or faith.Abramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03437169512435103918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-34138075598878634152013-02-11T09:36:53.036-06:002013-02-11T09:36:53.036-06:00DaBris, you might find this discussion to be infor...DaBris, you might find this discussion to be informative:<br /> A couple observations. First, nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis. They understand the bits about virgins and so on as metaphors for the ineffable joys of the afterlife. Second, while dreams of celestial babes may motivate the impoverished Palestinian kids who blow themselves up on Israeli street corners, a number of the 9-11 terrorists were older and had known something of earthly delights. That these middle-class types nonetheless were suicidal fanatics is yet another indication that we've entered a scary new phase. <br /><br />Now to your question. The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period. Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book (www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm): "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-breasted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round breasts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind. <br /><br />Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."<br /><br />There's more at The Straight Dope [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2329/does-the-koran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins]Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-13932471749364064382013-02-11T08:58:44.069-06:002013-02-11T08:58:44.069-06:00There is nothing obvious about, "Please don&#...There is nothing obvious about, "Please don't hit me, and I won't hit you." In fact, it is counter intuitive. What is obvious is that if I hit you hard enough, I can take what is yours and you are no longer a threat. Because I survived I am stronger. Better genes for the next generation.<br /><br />Atheism is a religion in that it is a filter through which your experience of the universe is subjected. The chief tenant is that nothing can be real that isn't experienced with the five senses or attested to be by a suitably high number of observers. Choosing the scientific method as a filter for the universe is picking a belief system.John T. Meche IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519759200296267707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-69543434141245292042013-02-11T00:57:55.268-06:002013-02-11T00:57:55.268-06:00Anon, Feb 10th at 11:02am.
I am the DaBris who wr...Anon, Feb 10th at 11:02am.<br /><br />I am the DaBris who wrote the above item, and I just don't see your "'my god = one true god' to 9/11 to homophobia to mocking the Muslim religion.", period. I never said WHICH God I pray to (or if I even pray), nor, if I do pray, how I pray.<br /><br />Nor was I either mocking Islam, or showing homophobia. I have to believe in God because the 9/11 attackers died during the attack, and they are beyond our capability to give them ANY kind of punishment. If there is a just and fair God, then He (or She) would punish the hijackers. My understanding of the situation was that the HIJACKERS believed that when they died they would be rewarded in Heaven by being given 75 female virgins. My closing comment was that it was (and is) my sincere hope that they were not REWARDED by being sent to Heaven and being given the 75 female virgins, but rather they were punished by being sent to Hell, and given to 75 male homosexual virgins, quite the opposite of what they had thought they would end up with. I was talking solely about the hijackers who are outside of our legal jurisdiction, and not painting all Muslims with the same brush.DaBrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-78892252645912252262013-02-10T23:29:04.281-06:002013-02-10T23:29:04.281-06:00My creation story is similar to Stan's.
One c...My creation story is similar to Stan's.<br /><br />One commonly asked question is "What happened BEFORE the Big Bang." I don't mind saying I don't know. I don't know if it's possible to know. Sometimes, I like to think about it, and it can be very mind-boggling. I think some people are uncomfortable not knowing. Faith can be a very comforting thing.<br /><br />But in all fairness to the question of what happened before the Big Bang, one must also ask where God comes from.Lepraenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-5702823806521503262013-02-10T21:05:33.842-06:002013-02-10T21:05:33.842-06:00In that vein, I am also an atheist and an agnostic...In that vein, I am also an atheist and an agnostic. It's fun being me.tarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08746481107639847429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-76825151804214159052013-02-10T21:04:07.478-06:002013-02-10T21:04:07.478-06:00I believe strongly in science. And I am a theist. ...I believe strongly in science. And I am a theist. A polytheist. I believe they all exist equally. Quantum theory, the many-worlds interpretation, can support that belief.tarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08746481107639847429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-66901835537007730902013-02-10T20:24:10.200-06:002013-02-10T20:24:10.200-06:00jesustapdancingchrist
www buzzfeeddotcom/seancur...jesustapdancingchrist<br />www buzzfeeddotcom/seancurry1/questions-atheists-are-sick-of-answeringAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-85814062591298301612013-02-10T18:28:36.960-06:002013-02-10T18:28:36.960-06:00"I would very much like to know what creation..."I would very much like to know what creation story atheists have."<br /><br />I can't speak for anyone else, but my creation story begins like this: "Once upon a time there was a Big Bang, creating the universe with all its stars. Later dust from exploding stars happened by chance to come together on a planet we call Earth..."<br /><br />"when all else fails the only thing you can do is carry on. There is no faith there." When I had my prostate cancer, I had faith that medical science and practice would excise all of it. I have a lot of faith in (selected) medical practitioners.Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-13900279594746407832013-02-10T18:06:35.642-06:002013-02-10T18:06:35.642-06:00"...atheists are my brothers and sisters of a..."...atheists are my brothers and sisters of a different faith, and every word they speak, speaks of faith. Like me they go as far as the legs of reason can carry them - and they leap."<br /><br />"The quotation above suggests that atheism is not the absence of religion, but a religion all to itself, with its own creation story, its own (scientific) laws, its own intrinsic (though varying) ethical standards and practices, and the application of faith when all else fails."<br /><br />When I read that quote, I read it two ways: one, that the faith that atheists have is the belief and hope that someday, somehow, mankind will let the binders and blinders of religion fall away and all of humanity will finally be free. And two, that again here is another religious person who is incapable of seeing the world without faith and, when encountering someone who does, must twist perception until the other person has faith, ANY faith because to be without faith is unbelievable.<br /><br />I would very much like to know what creation story atheists have. Further, when all else fails the only thing you can do is carry on. There is no faith there. There is simply more continuing on. If you are lucky there are others there to help you. If you are unlucky, you have to go alone. This can be frightening but just because one is afraid doesn't mean there is a god.Amynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-6844368076914970692013-02-10T16:03:57.048-06:002013-02-10T16:03:57.048-06:00I can't put my finger on why, but for some rea...I can't put my finger on why, but for some reason I loathed the book, but finished it completely. The ending (no spoilers from myself) might have been why, but the matters of faith were also unpleasant.<br /><br />As a Christian, I certainly don't mind hearing about other worldviews. I've read a lot of science fiction and fantasy, so I'm used to discussions of this type. However, the author of the Life of Pi seems to lack good understanding of Christianity and Islam. The same may be the case with Hinduism. Of that, I can't be sure, as it is one where my information is fairly shallow.<br /><br />Specifically with the above quote, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me" is best understood as referring to Psalm 22 (chapters of the Bible haven't always had chapter and verse numbers) - a prophecy of what would and did happen to Jesus, rather than Jesus doubting God.<br /><br />I think militant Atheists (Richard Dawkins et al) indeed do have a faith of sorts, but I believe most who call themselves Atheists do not. This later group, of whom I used to number, seems to be more Agnostic than Atheist, which is a group both without knowledge and without faith.<br /><br />Anyway, the book itself is interesting, but not especially enjoyable - if that makes any sense.Barnabasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-23883082467769320532013-02-10T15:35:40.037-06:002013-02-10T15:35:40.037-06:00"If atheism is a religion then not collecting..."If atheism is a religion then not collecting stamps is a hobby." Chrishttp://www.cynical-c.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-37362416051343718862013-02-10T14:11:18.880-06:002013-02-10T14:11:18.880-06:00Different anonymous here (I'm the one from the...Different anonymous here (I'm the one from the first reply in this thread).<br /><br />When you get right down to it, everyone has to believe things without proof. This is because many things are unprovable. However I try to limit the things I believe (positive sense) to things for which there is sufficient evidence. I'm sure there are things for which I fail this test however.<br /><br />Also it is entirely possible for someone to treat atheism (as with many things) as a religion, but the strict definition still falls down to being "some who believes there are no gods".<br /><br />Your alien example misses the obvious option of e) I believe it is possible but not guaranteed that life is elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-49380765697324930372013-02-10T13:21:21.690-06:002013-02-10T13:21:21.690-06:00Stan: "The quotation above suggests that athe...Stan: "The quotation above suggests that atheism is not the absence of religion, but a religion all to itself, with its own creation story, its own (scientific) laws, its own intrinsic (though varying) ethical standards and practices, and the application of faith when all else fails."<br /><br />Your original post said perhaps people like me, according to the author, have a "faith" and a "religion" and a creation "story." Now you say I have a belief system. I have a "non-belief" system with open-ended questions, not closed yes or no questions, such as "who create the Earth?"<br /><br />I only believe that everything called religion is false and man-made. I don't believe in any substitute.<br /><br />I don't claim to have any answers. I just know NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER. I DON'T BELIEVE in a God-like creator who requires my faith and devotion; therefor, I have no faith or written belief SYSTEM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-8685200575511008372013-02-10T12:03:21.854-06:002013-02-10T12:03:21.854-06:00I'm not talking about gods. I'm talking a...I'm not talking about gods. I'm talking about the necessity of believing (or not believing) some things for which one does not have proof. You have a belief system, but it doesn't involve gods.Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-77002572210810422082013-02-10T12:00:45.328-06:002013-02-10T12:00:45.328-06:00e) I believe there could be life elsewhere. It wo...e) I believe there could be life elsewhere. It would require "proof." <br /><br />Did I contradict myself? If I believe there could be life elsewhere, does that mean I believe they share the same "God."<br /><br />PS: I will believe in "God" when "He" comes to Earth (may I suggest television as the medium) just like "He" did so many times in ancient religions. Why so camera shy lately?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-53602578446302957752013-02-10T11:38:01.141-06:002013-02-10T11:38:01.141-06:00A question for you, anonymous. What is your view ...A question for you, anonymous. What is your view on the existence or nonexistence of sentient life elsewhere in the universe? (i.e. not on earth).<br /><br />a) There is life elsewhere, and I have proof of its existence.<br />b) There is no life elsewhere, and I have proof it does not exist.<br />c) I believe (or don't believe) there is life elsewhere, but have no proof. This is one component of my "belief system."<br /><br />d) I don't know what you're talking about, or I refuse to answer on the grounds that I may contradict myself.<br />Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-3794428892317167202013-02-10T11:12:04.681-06:002013-02-10T11:12:04.681-06:00Mel V, atheists don't HAVE a belief system. We...Mel V, atheists don't HAVE a belief system. We believe everything from Zoroastrianism to Christianity to Mormonism and Scientology are stories created by man, not god. We believe it is fantasy and rather quite ridiculous. It's the complete absence of belief. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-14933638610354769862013-02-10T11:03:02.046-06:002013-02-10T11:03:02.046-06:00I don't believe in god. Any god, not just the ...I don't believe in god. Any god, not just the christian one, the moslem one, but all of them, from Odin to Kali, and all the ones I've never heard of. <br />You might thus call me an atheist, but I'm no card carrying member of an atheist movement. It's not a religion, it's not based on immutable faith, it's based simply on a lack of any evidence for any god. Nor am I, as some critics of atheists often cry, a "Darwinist". Yes, I believe in evolution, we can demonstrate it, but is 'Origin of Species' a holy tome, not to be disagreed with? No. Darwin never claimed to know it all, nor that all he said was right. He set forth a hypothesis, and showed some evidence to support it. It does not explain everything we see, but, unlike so many holy books, it does not demand blind obedience.<br />I enjoyed 'Life of Pi', but feel no great desire to read another book by Yan Martelsoubriquethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151288534629885195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-51768114785412942372013-02-10T11:02:53.297-06:002013-02-10T11:02:53.297-06:00DaBrisFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:15 AM's post has ...DaBrisFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:15 AM's post has everything from 'my god = one true god' to 9/11 to homophobia to mocking the Muslim religion.<br /><br />And this whole 'HAVE to believe in God' because you are dissatisfied with the justice of man (or the lack there of): <br />Perhaps it is not the whole [lack of god in the USA] that has allowed evil to run rampant but instead this 'god will fix it later' complacency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com