tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post2975707537756442514..comments2024-03-27T18:20:38.176-05:00Comments on TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): A proposal to increase taxes on the super-richMinnesotastanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-20512694186097146882011-02-18T15:36:52.271-06:002011-02-18T15:36:52.271-06:00Steve, you missed my point (I posted above as anon...Steve, you missed my point (I posted above as anonymous). I was trying to illustrate that taxing someone "fairly" can mean many different things.<br /><br />Isn't it considered "fair" if everyone pays the same amount?<br /><br />I use that as an example to break people's fixation with the idea that the same *rate* across all levels of income is the only "fair" way to tax. Why is the same rate fair but the same dollar amount not more fair? <br /><br />Once someone can appreciate that it isn't fair to tax each person $20,000 regardless of their income, because the impact of a flat fee isn't the same on each person, then those people can shift their thinking from "same amount/same percent" to "same impact", and then hopefully they will realize that even taking 100% of Warren Buffet's last million in income will have no impact on his life.NoPoliticiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-82121614300448310652011-02-17T22:13:40.654-06:002011-02-17T22:13:40.654-06:00Let's start this off incrementally; how about ...<i>Let's start this off incrementally; how about a war tax to support our escapades in Afghanistan and Iraq (and Pakistan while we're at it)?</i><br /><br />Jack, I've been saying this for a couple years now. Wouldn't it be patriotic to pay for the wars like we did before in our history? Let's get real, please!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-64851727660853245452011-02-17T19:12:41.266-06:002011-02-17T19:12:41.266-06:00I say we tax 'em 100%. That'll fix the ric...<i>I say we tax 'em 100%. That'll fix the rich bastards! They won't want to make any more money at all after a while. Put 'em on the street, that's my motto.</i><br /><br />As everyone knows, traditionally the wealthy were taxed much higher, particularly during the Eisenhower boom years. They didn't 'stop wanting to make money" then or ever. So basically there's nothing fact based in your comment.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619153370091469672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-17271498003553501382011-02-17T19:10:49.110-06:002011-02-17T19:10:49.110-06:00Why should Warren Buffet pay millions in taxes whe...<i>Why should Warren Buffet pay millions in taxes when he barely uses any public services? He doesn't ride the bus, he doesn't use the public schools, he likely has his own private security force.</i><br /><br />Actually it would be quite the opposite. The wealthy rely on infrastructure and the public good a million times more than any poor person. <br /><br />"He doesn't ride the bus"<br />He may have in the past, certainly many of the people employed by his companies do. <br /><br />"He doesn't use the public schools"<br />He never went to school? What about the public schools that educated employees enough so that they could work for his companies?<br /><br />"He likely has his own security force"<br />So he never relies on police or the law? What about courts? <br /><br />This is such a misguided argument I don't even know where to begin. I could literally spend hours typing out all the various public resources and ways that Buffet benefits from infrastructure, and the public good.<br /><br />As much as people like to forget, we are part of a society, and we benefit from that. Don't like it? Go to rural Montana and go Galt.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619153370091469672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-17046454978962297192011-02-17T18:27:57.921-06:002011-02-17T18:27:57.921-06:00Let's start this off incrementally; how about ...Let's start this off incrementally; how about a war tax to support our escapades in Afghanistan and Iraq (and Pakistan while we're at it)?<br /><br />Surely, Americans would rally around our troops who are supporting democracy. Why, I imagine a 10% increase would cheerfully be accepted as a small cost for us to be policeman of the world.Jack of All Tiradeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00793541460471870149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-52485286398002488062011-02-17T15:18:45.963-06:002011-02-17T15:18:45.963-06:00Wouldn't it be more fair if every person paid ...Wouldn't it be more fair if every person paid the same dollar amount? Why should Warren Buffet pay millions in taxes when he barely uses any public services? He doesn't ride the bus, he doesn't use the public schools, he likely has his own private security force.<br /><br />I think that if you want to be fair, you should push for the same dollar value paid in tax per person because everyone being treated the same is the very definition of "fair".<br /><br />Of course, this isn't fair in another sense of the word, because if everyone has to pay $20,000 in taxes - whether they make $20,000 or $20 million - the impact of those payments is clearly unfair.<br /><br />That's why progressive taxation is more than "fair" - because although the dollar amount isn't the same, and although the percentage isn't the same, the impact of the taxes on the individual still greatly favor the wealthy. Even at 70% on incomes over $15 million, Warren Buffet will not feel any impact of those taxes. Not one bit.<br /><br />Plus, it actually is fair, because Buffet would still be paying 15% tax on his first $32,550 in income, just like everyone else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-9341777183970640712011-02-17T14:27:18.456-06:002011-02-17T14:27:18.456-06:00Sorry Bret, if it seemed I was picking on your cho...Sorry Bret, if it seemed I was picking on your choice of words. I just got to thinking that's how we usually view taxes deep down, me included.<br /><br />I wish taxes were used less as behavior modifiers and punishments, and more as they aught to be. (Hey, maybe I;m turning Libertarian?)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14797317910988407423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-50202277953747380372011-02-17T14:21:06.195-06:002011-02-17T14:21:06.195-06:00Mike,
My use of the word "punishment" d...Mike,<br /><br />My use of the word "punishment" doesn't necessarily imply intent (although I think in this case the intent exists). Rather, it's meant to explicitly describe the action. Taxation is punishment, the same way hitting a dog with a newspaper is punishment. That's why it's used by politicians to discourage bad behavior (smoking cigarettes?) and encourage good behavior (home ownership).Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740034241172365953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-23339649210200967622011-02-17T13:24:35.831-06:002011-02-17T13:24:35.831-06:00I like the view that taxation is a punishment. But...I like the view that taxation is a punishment. But then, isn't that how we all tend to view it? The government is punishing us in some way for some sin. Was it making too much money? Or perhaps for not being more giving towards those in need. Maybe they just punish us because we are so eager to make war.<br /><br />Or perhaps it isn't intended to be punishment at all?...<br /><br /><br />Sorry, just going off on a tangent there :)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14797317910988407423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-1283035828620092072011-02-17T12:31:00.198-06:002011-02-17T12:31:00.198-06:00Although I oppose income-based taxation completely...Although I oppose income-based taxation completely I would consider a flat tax with no deductions an improvement over the current system.<br /><br />Having everyone pay the same percentage regardless of income, occupation, political status, or otherwise is fair, ethical, harder to corrupt, and cheaper to implement.<br /><br />I believe Warren Buffett to be right, but I don't take his comments to mean that he is paying too little. Afterall, if he viewed it as such he could always donate more money to the treasury. The self-imposed taxation limit is infinite. To the extent that his secretary is in higher tax bracket, it is due to a cornucopia of deductions, credits, and loopholes Buffett has available to him and an army of tax accountants to take advantage of them. A properly defined flat tax would greatly reduce the effectiveness of such methods.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740034241172365953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-53877209273507770542011-02-17T00:49:04.968-06:002011-02-17T00:49:04.968-06:00Bret, would you consider it ethical to have them p...Bret, would you consider it ethical to have them pay the SAME percentage as others? Warren Buffett has said his tax bracket is lower than that of his secretary.Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-61068348054294663102011-02-16T23:46:43.980-06:002011-02-16T23:46:43.980-06:00A little premature submission there. The comment s...A little premature submission there. The comment should say:<br /><br /><i>I'm pretty sure that any political proposal that is formulated as "The Federal Government should undertake X to punish subclass Y" would be <b>received with outrage</b>.</i>Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740034241172365953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-19970442489883930732011-02-16T23:40:49.518-06:002011-02-16T23:40:49.518-06:00I'm pretty sure that any political proposal th...I'm pretty sure that any political proposal that is formulated as "The Federal Government should undertake X to punish subclass Y" would be , but somehow when it's "excessive taxation" and "rich people" everything becomes OK. It blows my mind that the fact that this particular subclass can "afford it" makes it OK to go ahead with. Would we similarly impose excessive punishment on other subclasses because they "can handle it"? The only substantive discussion that ever takes place regarding taxation is about whether or not they'll pay. Why isn't the discussion about whether or not it's ethical?Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740034241172365953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-10271806546612269302011-02-16T23:33:07.500-06:002011-02-16T23:33:07.500-06:00Though it'll never happen, my hope is that tax...Though it'll never happen, my hope is that taxes be readjusted for everyone such that the more that you make, the more you pay, BUT at the same time, tax deductions get reduced so that you actually pay closer to the actual percentage of what you make. I'd also like to see the percentage paid by those making the most be increased to 20% from their current 16%.DaBrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-74717237911591680662011-02-16T21:21:36.044-06:002011-02-16T21:21:36.044-06:00I agree with Mr Reich to some extent, but rather t...I agree with Mr Reich to some extent, but rather than pick an arbitrary hight rate, we need to raise taxes to cover the average deficit. The super rich are most able to pay more taxes, so their share should go up. But all of ours should too. We balanced the budget under Clinton, so let's start with a return to those rate, and maybe add a top rate that is 5% higher than the next highest rate for incomes over some super rich threshold (10 million is an easy number).<br /><br />If taxes are required to rise in lock step with expenditures then we will pretty quickly find that unrestrained spending results in higher taxes which results in politicians losing reelection. To keep people from just taxing the rich to death we need to move all rates in lock step, so if we need 10% more tax revenue, all taxes go up by 10%.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-45984768474000955882011-02-16T20:16:22.527-06:002011-02-16T20:16:22.527-06:00I say we tax 'em 100%. That'll fix the ric...I say we tax 'em 100%. That'll fix the rich bastards! They won't want to make any more money at all after a while. Put 'em on the street, that's my motto.bigjohn756noreply@blogger.com