The second-in-line to the presidency informed Americans on Tuesday that their time-honored conception of one of the founding principles of the country was a “misunderstanding”. Speaking to CNBC’s Squawk Box, he tried to turn the conventional wisdom about the founders’ intentions on its head and claimed what they really wanted was to stop government interfering with religion, not the other way around.“The separation of church and state is a misnomer,” the speaker said in an interview with the TV channel from the US Capitol. “People misunderstand it. Of course, it comes from a phrase that was in a letter that Jefferson wrote. It’s not in the constitution.”Johnson was referring to Thomas Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists Association of Connecticut, written in 1802 when the third president was in the White House. It makes clear that the founding fathers subscribed to a powerful separation of church and state, which they enshrined in the establishment clause of the first amendment.
Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian; he was a "deist," believing in the existence of a God, but not in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Jefferson created his own multilingual bible, editing out the miracles from the Gospels (available from your local library if you are curioius).
See also: Thomas Jefferson re religious freedom.
If I may, allow me to disagree. It should be noted that the Bill of Rights does not GIVE us our unalienable rights, but instead lets it be known that it is not to INFRINGE upon our rights. Thus, if Freedom of Religion is a God-given right, then it seems that the Speaker's point has some purchase.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I agree that the government shouldn't respect an establishment of religion in terms of giving it a right that other religions don't get, I am not persuaded that this precluded the government from (as is obvious) giving Christianity a "first among equals" place. The founding fathers, whether deist or not, certainly respected the Christian religion, drawing much from it.
We are not a de jure Christian nation, but it seems were are a de facto one.
Thus, if Freedom of Religion is a God-given right
DeleteThis only works if you assume there is a god to give rights.
I am not persuaded that this precluded the government from (as is obvious) giving Christianity a "first among equals" place
Hate to tell you the Constitution and the many writings from its authors don't care if you are persuaded.
It also makes no logical sense, considering that many colonials had fled religious prosecution. And let's be clear, these were not christians prosecuted by muslims, jews, buddhists or hindus. These were christians prosecuted by christians of a different flavor. Protestants hunted down by catholics. Anglicans fighting with puritans. Hell, the catholic church at some point was such a mess that it had 3 freaking popes.
The main fallacy in your argument is that there is such a thing as a single christianity. There is not. Christians are fractured over many many many different groups with vastly different interpretations of what the bible says. There is no one christianity.
We are not a de jure Christian nation, but it seems were are a de facto one.
The US is not by law, and even many christians would not like such to be the case.
Case and point, many christians would not like to see the current speaker impose his flavor of christianity on everybody. And very clearly, many christian voters do not like SCOTUS imposing its interpretation of christianity on everybody.
And that's just talking about what christians don't want, ignoring what all non-christians want.
If God did not give you your rights...then the state did. Locke's entire argument regarding the right to overthrow the govt is based on it not being the govt, but God, who gives us our rights.
DeleteIf you do not believe in a God, it's going to be difficult to claim any lasting right to the rights espoused in the Bill of Rights.
“ If you do not believe in a God, it's going to be difficult to claim any lasting right to the rights espoused in the Bill of Rights.”
DeleteNo, it isn’t. Nothing in the Bill of Rights requires a belief in any power other than the government.
And if a belief in God were required it would be necessary to clarify which God. Even different Christians view God differently.
Individual Christians, like individuals of other faiths as well as agnostics and atheists, interpret their religion in ways that vary greatly. So even if Christians are a majority, and even if this were a "Christian nation" there's no way to accommodate all the different views that just different Christians hold. That's why freedom of religion, as much as possible, means freedom from religion.
ReplyDeleteIf Speaker Johnson really thinks his interpretation of Christianity is better than anyone else's, or, for that matter, any other religion or system of belief, he needs to offer something better than "Because I believe it."
The problem as I see it is that the same people believe that state they believe that the Constitution should be strictly interpreted are also interpreting it so that they can wrestle it into their belief system. What does the Constitution say about the founders being Deists? Nothing. So, nothing to argue about, following their own standard. There is no there, there.
ReplyDeleteIntegration of religion into politics has historically been the realm of fascists and authoritarians. Maybe now it will be different?
Mike Johnson is a fan of David Barton, faux historian and Seven Mountains Dominionism Christian. It is the goal of his faith to control family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government for all citizens, not just their believers.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has encountered the Mike Johnsons of the world for the past twenty years I believe them when they spew their altered view of the Constitution. Of course they are wrong to the power of totally incorrect, but that doesn't stop a Christian nationalist on their way to impose their faith on all of humanity. They have a job to bring about their apocalypse for the return of their deity. Never mind their holy book states no human would know the time or place of Jesus's return.
If We The People let the Mike Johnsons of the world take over our country it is my opinion that we deserve and are accountable for every death that will certainly come next. As I said, when theocrats and fascists tell me who they are I believe them.
Interesting. I have a friend who went to school with Mike Johnson in Louisiana. Even before Johnson ascended to the speakership, my friend said if Johnson was put into seats of power "God help us all."
DeleteMike Johnson would be the first to call Jesus a Communist terrorist if he showed up now. What passes for Christianity in most of the world is a farce. Jesus had a lot of great ideas but like Marx nobody is practising the fundamentals. We live in a world with Buddhist extremists murdering other faiths. Religion is a disease.
ReplyDeleteApparently you would not be a supporter of the Social Gospel?
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