Easthampton is rallying around a superintendent finalist who said his offer to lead the city’s public schools was rescinded after he referred to women as “ladies” in an email — an act some school committee members reportedly viewed as a microaggression.Dr. Vito Perrone said the school committee rescinded its offer in an executive session last Thursday, about a week after it voted 4-3 to hire the former Easthampton High School principal...The decision hinged on Perrone’s use of “ladies” in an email he sent to committee Chairperson Cynthia Kwiecinski over contract negotiations, he told the newspaper...Perrone, currently interim superintendent of schools in West Springfield, told the Daily Hampshire Gazette that Kwiecinski said using “ladies” was a microaggression and “the fact that he didn’t know that as an educator was a problem.”He explained that the terms “ladies” and “gentlemen” were used as a sign of respect when he was growing up, adding that he wasn’t aiming to insult anyone, according to the newspaper.
Perhaps someone can explain this to me; I seem to be out of touch. Or perhaps there is was some nuance in his email that's not being reported. Story found at Boston.com.
Addendum: A big tip of the blogging hat to the reader who found details about this case and the explanation for the offensive characteristics of the term "ladies" in a Boston Globe article. Several other comments by readers offer additional insights.
I live in a very liberal area and have not heard of this as a microaggression, though I've noticed a shift to prefer "women" over "ladies". I have certainly seen it as overt aggression or being snide, and if the person has a habit of using it in a belittling way it's definitely caused a problem. There's a big difference between "we got the feedback on the policy, but we need to look into these objections specifically from the ladies in the department" and "everyone was fine with it, except all of the LADIES." Unless someone publishes the email it seems pretty uncertain.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that the modifier "micro" is not being taken literally enough. If it's micro, why the hell is it note worthy? But of course we have a socially toxic power struggle going on; cultural paraquat. All is fair in love and the gender war.
ReplyDelete"Lady" is diminutive, evoking a time when gender roles were fixed and women were expected to be dainty and submissive. It's just not suitable for today's society except perhaps as a formal title or when the "kind and gentle" connotation is intended to be more than simply implied.
ReplyDeleteThis article sums it up pretty well (linked from the Internet Archive to bypass the paywall): https://web.archive.org/web/20230406134122/https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/04/06/business/superintendent-ladies-email-microaggression-experts/
I don't think "lady" is a diminutive, in the literal definition, any more than "gentleman" is, but both refer to people who've tacitly accepted a certain social structure to a degree that implies they are complicit within it. If you reject the current social structure, and specifically the way women are treated within it, then I can understand not wishing to be referred to as a "lady" or, indeed, a "gentleman".
DeleteHowever, context is everything. It might be a well-intentioned slip from someone unfamiliar with the new thinking - new thinking that is neither universally-accepted or widely known - or it could be the sign of something worse. The thing is I don't think I would want the job entrusted to either someone who uses the term "lady" to tacitly enforce gender stereotyping, or to someone who does any more than correct the oversight and move on.
Anyone focusing on this sort of thing is distracting from far worse that's going on. There isn't a political niche that isn't getting hot and bothered about the usage of some word or other, so they can use it to bludgeon the other side.
Yeah Easthampton, Smith, Mount Holyoke, U Mass, Lady of the Elms, Simmons, and more. They said he being an educator should know that but sounds to me like they failed to teach this twisted logic they worship.
ReplyDeleteThey said he (you) should ask a person what they want to be called. How do you do that when addressing a committee with several people during business (contract negotiations), go around to each woman and take notes?
Remember guys don't call the broads ladies.
xoxoxoBruce
They said he (you) should ask a person what they want to be called. How do you do that when addressing a committee with several people during business (contract negotiations), go around to each woman and take notes?
DeleteIt is common courteous to address people by their name. You can't find out people's names without asking. Do you oppose this?
Also, as indicated: "Hi folks" captures everyone, not only the men, but also the women and those who identify differently.
Why is it so hard to call people what they want to be called?
Would you find it normal I call you Josephine instead of Bruce because I can't be bothered to read for your name entirely and figure that everyone who starts their name with xoxoxo remind me of my lovely friend Josephine?
Finally, rescinding an offer for a microaggression is quite embarrassing. It shows flaws in the hiring process. This is as much on the hiring committee as on the candidate.
I can offer two examples of when "ladies" or "lady" would be considered a microaggression:
ReplyDeleteI was recently a consultant on a huge 1+ year project with a global NGO with two other (male) colleagues. During a v important meeting with the client and another consultant on the project, he (a very nice older white man) referred to my colleagues by their names but always spoke of the women in the meeting as "the ladies." He clearly couldn't be bothered to remember our names.
I moderated a panel recently for a very large conference of my profession, and when I walked up to introduce myself to one of the panelists (again, a very nice older white man) he immediately reached out to hug me and told me what a "nice lady" I was to moderate *his* panel. I do not hug people I've never met before, especially after Covid, and I doubt he would have tried to hug a male moderator. Also, it was *my* panel, not his.
I would definitely call those microaggressions. Context helps.
Lots of names will need to be changed.
ReplyDeleteTech Ladies is a worldwide community for women in tech with more than 150,000 members. https://www.hiretechladies.com/about-us
Bare Naked Ladies
"Single Ladies" (Beyonce)
Ladies that UX https://ladiesthatux.com/ (had to Google what UX refers to)
Ack, never mind...
I suppose "First Lady" is a formal title, hence acceptable?
In late breaking news, it is polite to address a woman as Ms. rather than Mrs. or Miss.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't you ask the woman which title, if any, she prefers?
DeleteI'd have to see the email (and I don't care enough to click), but if this is a group that could have gentlemen and nb people in it (as in, it isn't a women's-only association that others are not allowed to join), focusing on the female gender is a bit of a microaggression. We now have flight attendants, not stewardesses, actors not actresses, mail carriers, chair-people, etc. There's no reason to point out that everyone is female.
ReplyDeleteThe word 'ladies' itself is not necessarily the problem, and removing it isn't necessarily the fix. If you stand up in front of an audience and say, 'Welcome, ladies and gentlemen', that's fine. 'The ladies' loos' is fine. But if you have a dismissive, sexist sentence (or attitude), merely avoiding the word 'ladies' doesn't help. To use Anonymous' example a few posts up, using 'the women', 'the girls', or 'the females', or 'the female team members' would all have been just as bad. The sexism is in the not thinking to credit half the team with names, not which term was used for the neglected half. And there's favoritism there too, in singling out the other half for special mention. I think it might be charitable to call that just a microaggression. Even if unintended, it's significant.
ReplyDeleteI sent a link to this post to an old friend whose entire career was spent in the field of public and private education. Here is an excerpt from their frank (and vehement) reply:
ReplyDelete"Here's part of the deal on the use of "ladies" and why it was deemed a microaggression. It is perceived in certain situations in the modern world as a slight to women in their push to equality, because it refers to the era when women were regarded as too dainty to do a man's work and thus had to be polite little ladies...
But when you look at the huge and almost immediate level of support this man received in all the right ways from school parents, colleagues, students, and pointy-headed media types you get the idea that the problem lies not with him and what he meant, but with some uber-liberal pinhead trying to make a point and with an agenda all their own...
Perhaps the most important flip side of the women/ladies argument is something many of you may know, but which I doubt this New England School Board Chair has ever learned or even conceived of. And it far outweighs the petty issue she is pissed over. It is the four-centuries-old elephant in the room of woke-ism, namely American racism.
As a Yankee who worked in schools in the Southern culture for 4 decades, I would love to explain to this idiot Board Chair that for centuries, the monikers of woman versus lady were used intentionally and ubiquitously throughout Southern society to perpetuate racism. Black WOMEN would never, ever be called ladies. They weren't fit for such a dignified title. Only white women were LADIES...
I stopped using the word "women" a long time ago for that very reason, in virtually every situation, and intentionally substituted the word ladies at every turn, especially when I was referring to Black ladies like Nikki Giovanni or Isabel Willkerson or Michelle Obama or Ketanji Brown Jackson.
And I will continue to fight that linguistic battle for as long as I live, ignorant School Board Chairs be damned. The elephant in the room of American history demands no less."
A lot of truth here, but consider: Oprah, who is a billionaire--and I'd argue not oppressed--would possibly take umbrage at being called a lady; this being her required feminist knee-jerk response to the phantom patriarchy. While a white homeless woman on the streets of my town would be delighted to be referred as a "lady." Hell, the white homeless person is delighted when anyone refers to them as anything which acknowledges their existence as human being. When will we get our heads out of our asses and realize we need to unite one class with common economic interests? We're still fighting battles that were won 50 years ago. Anything but taking on the task of fighting the plutocrats who rule America.
DeleteI spent a lot of time in Western Massachusetts when I was in college. That was some time ago, but it hasn't changed much. It's a very, very liberal place, and I wasn't shocked to learn that if this sort of thing would happen, it would happen in Western Mass. I agree with your friend. Uber-liberal pinheads are involved. I am nearly one of those myself.
DeleteI'm frustrated though, because what I see is nothing more than an extension of the grievance culture we see on the right - and it seems like we're having the time of our lives with it. Everything is simple, and everything is obvious, and if you don't agree, then you must hate.... something. This whole story could have been a conversation between well-meaning people, but instead it's a public shaming. This kind of thing is feeding red meat to the people who want to paint progressivism as the home of "cancel culture." Even the term "microaggression" has only ever served to make sure people know that people who don't conform are *aggressors.*
A quick scan of news shows that there are now suggestions that this incident had to do with salary and time off demands as much as the "ladies" comment. This isn't helping, because it's obviously revisionism. The offer was made and rescinded. You don't make an offer without working out the details.
Oh, and for the record, I would never use the term "ladies" in a professional email. It's not smart regardless. It's also not a crime worthy of depriving a guy you've already hired of his job.
Slightly off topic, but comes to mind from a long ago History class in college.
ReplyDelete"The Book of the City of Ladies" Book by Christine de Pizan
Available from Penguin Books.
from the 15th century.
I see lots of young women these days calling each other "dude". If that's acceptable, then lady can't possibly be offensive.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, attempting to call everyone by their preferred pronouns is impossible unless they wear name tags.
I think a source of friction with most people (myself included) is how quickly the "definition" of words and symbols can change, taking them from normal and acceptable to bad and offensive. There is no source you can reference to determine if what you think is appropriate others will find offensive, besides having your thumb on the pulse of social media. To make it more difficult, social media has turned so caustic that I have turned away from Facebook and Twitter (almost) completely since the anti-vaccine debacle of 2020.
ReplyDeleteIt's common for people to project their definition of a word or a symbol to mean only what they feel it means. An example of this is Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the flag, the guy who did it shared his reason and the message he wanted it to convey yet a huge swath of the population gave his actions their own reasons, separate from his. Is it right that I should redefine your reason for an action and promote that as true and your reason as a lie, even when you've made an effort to explain yourself in a reasonable way?
As another example, the confederate flag. When I see the confederate flag I think racism first and foremost. I think it's impossible to have a confederate flag sticker on your car without expecting me to assume you have issues with race. However I think there are many that see other "American" values that the confederate flag can represent that are not racist. I can't articulate what those values might be exactly but in this case I'm projecting my definition of what the confederate flag means to me onto other people. Is it right that every time a see a confederate flag I think "there is an openly racist person"?
This is the same with "ladies". They find it offensive, you find it polite. You are both right, it's just perspective.
https://openlibrary.org/works/OL1860041W/The_Women%27s_Room
ReplyDeleteIt's right here. 1977. Almost fifty years ago. How clueless are you people?
The email was sent to the chairman and another woman. The other said she was not offended and she is a lady.
ReplyDeleteThe chairman apparently recinded the offer on her own. She said when they voted to make an offer they tried to phone him but he'd gone to bed at 10:15 so after 11PM she called the police to check on him and that the superintendant should be available 24/7. The superintendant? They were calling to offer the job. She is a first class prize winning blue ribbon Karen.
The search committee had recomended two men and a woman, they gave the job to the woman. Perhaps she would accept less money than the men.
The uproar in the community stemmed from his stint as a principal in the district where he impressed parents by doing a great job so they were disappointed at the news.
xoxoxoBruce
"The email was sent to the chairman and another woman."
DeleteOh my! "chairman"?! The microaggression is strong on this one. Chairperson Cynthia Kwiecinski will not be pleased.
Also, a follow-up story published yesterday: (worth a read, IMO)
https://www.thereminder.com/localnews/easthampton/faginski-stark-named-next-superintendent-in-eastha/
Corection Rider, my agression is far from micro.
DeletexoxoxoBruce
BTW: Any language acknowledging binary sexuality is under assault by the Gender Nazis. This is only logical once sexual dimorphism and any behavioral differences between the sexes (gender) are accepted as a patriarchal invention. Ideology is at war with biology and since humans are in the late phase of a war with nature, this kind of makes sense.
ReplyDeleteWhite/female/senior/business professional here. I speak up when I'm referred to as a "lady" and point out that I am not and never have been "ladylike" which, in my school days, meant ironed starched dresses, neat socks, polished shoes and smooth hair. "Ladylike" and "be a lady" has irked me from about age 6, and 6 decades later it still bothers me. I hope folks feel comfortable and righteous in speaking up for themselves.
ReplyDeleteTo the (deliberately) obtuse commentariat:
ReplyDeleteWould you like it if I were trying to get a job with you and I addressed you as "Hey Boomer" or "Dear Bald Guy"? Context matters. This person chose to address two people who have worked their way up to positions of authority by pointing out the genitalia he thinks they have. He could have written a salutation like "Good morning" or "Dear ___" but he chose to personalize it in a way that points out they are women (possible implication: women in a man's job). Not good judgment. And presumably he has seen in his career how women have to work harder to even be considered for management and executive roles, so this was interpreted by at least one of the addressees as a sign that he is not going to respect her going forward. And "that's just how I was raised" is a cop-out. Many of us were raised by horrible people but our employers still expect us to behave in a way that doesn't cause problems.
Mistress Harley, are you still reading TYWKIWDBI? Haven't heard from you for a couple years -
ReplyDeletehttps://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2018/12/mistress-harleys-bookshelves.html
I'm curious to know how a professional dominatrix responds to being called a "lady."
The plot thickens...
ReplyDeleteApril 14, 2023
"Dr. Erica Faginski-Stark withdrew from consideration after being named the next candidate [After the committee withdrew the offer to Vito Perrone] for the position. The committee initially voted 5-1 with one abstention to name Faginski-Stark the next superintendent during an April 10 meeting.
Negotiations with Faginski-Stark were expected to begin in an executive session on April 14 before she announced her withdrawal."
Oops, forgot to cite the source:
Delete"Faginski-Stark named next superintendent in Easthampton, later withdraws from consideration"
https://www.thereminder.com/localnews/easthampton/faginski-stark-named-next-superintendent-in-eastha2/
I'm not surprised she decided to pull out of that hornets nest. With the public split on the decision to disqualify the man who had impressed so many of the local parents when he was principal, taking that job would put her in the crosshairs. She likely decided she would be happier in Ludlow.
ReplyDeleteAnon; "the (deliberately) obtuse commentariat:"?
Everyone who disagrees with you is deliberately obtuse? The two women "who have worked their way up to positions of authority" are elected, they're politicians.
"Hey Boomer" or "Dear Bald Guy" don't refer to genetalia, Neither does Lady.
I agree that women have had a grueling climb on the corporate ladder. None of the female bosses I've encountered were pleasant, and I attributed that to their difficult journey and likely the need to appear tough as nails to reduce vulnerability. You're reeled off a litany of gripes that while mostly valid have no bearing on this case. Now if the chair objected to the term lady she is certainly entitled to say so, but to yank the job that had been offered because of that personal preference (which most of the public does not agree with) is dereliction of duty to the voters.
xoxoxoBruce
As Professor [Derald Wing] Sue* told The Chronicle of Higher Education, “People who engage in microaggressions are oftentimes well-intentioned, decent individuals who aren’t aware that they are engaging in an offensive way toward someone else.” :
ReplyDeleteNow that the research has made its way into popular culture, Ms. Capodilupo* said, some people use the word to shut down conversations instead of reflecting on the situation.
“It was never meant to give a vernacular that then makes it OK to stop talking,” Ms. Capodilupo said. “It was to ask people to be flexible in their thinking and to be open-minded to the concept that we don’t all walk through the world in the same shoes.”
From: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/what-are-microaggressions
-----------
*Dr. Derald Wing Sue is a professor of psychology and education at Teachers College, Columbia University in New York City, and author of "Microaggressions in Everyday Life: Race, Gender and Sexual Orientation."
*Dr. Christina M. Capodilupo is also a professor at Teachers College, Columbia University, who has worked with Dr. Sue and written extensively about microaggressions. She is the author of "Microaggression Theory."
What shocked me about this is the legendary educator Vito Perrone whose books I read died more than a decade ago! https://www.ikedacenter.org/resources/vito-perrone-educating-peace-and-social-justice
ReplyDelete