"It's no secret that our nation may very well be experiencing the hand
of judgment. It's no secret that we all are concerned that our nation
may be in a time of decline.... Our nation has seen judgment not once
but twice on September 11. That's why we're going to have '9/11 Pray' on
that day. Is there anything better that we can do on that day rather
than to humble ourselves and to pray to an almighty God?"
This response from Rachel Maddow:
To be sure, Bachmann, like everyone else, is entitled to whatever
theological beliefs she wishes to embrace. But it's nevertheless jarring, to put it mildly, to see a prominent politician -- a former presidential candidate and current member of the House Intelligence Committee -- argue publicly that God's judgment of Americans' sins led to deadly terrorist attacks. Members of Congress usually blame the
terrorists for mass murder, not us.
Abraham Lincoln entreated the country to seek God's favor regarding the Civil War and correlated the war with God's judgement on the U.S. because of slavery.
ReplyDeleteIn both Lincoln and Bachmann's case, seeing a tragedy as being allowed by God, they did not take that as meaning the human agents involved should be 'let off the hook'.
-Chipper
Of course Lincoln said this over 150 years ago...
DeleteSo what?
DeleteSo it wasn't dated, absurd superstition when he said it. It is now.
Delete@vanderleun,
DeleteWhat Jim said. I'd also add that Lincoln wasn't a lunatic or demagogue that used religious fanaticism as a cudgel. Got it? Or do you need it broken down more?
As an atheist, this stuff disturbs me. If you really believe that an imaginary man who lives in the sky can influence the path of history, you should have a long look at what brought you to that point of view. If your answer doesn't have anything to do with observation and careful thought, then I would argue that you don't have any business making decisions for those of us who want objective logic and reason in our government.
ReplyDelete"... who want objective logic and reason in our government."
DeleteDoesn't exist there and has not for some time. You believe in an abstract delusion if you think it does.
Well, as I said, "want" not "believe," but your statement is generally accurate. I'm not one who believes we have that (indeed, this article should be evidence enough that we don't), but I don't think it's wrong to want it.
DeleteI am a sincere Christian. But I have found that at any single moment, there are PLENTY OF "JUDGMENTS" that we could blame on God or our sins. As it usually happens, though, since Republicans tend to be more vocal about their religious thoughts, most judgments take place because of DEMOCRAT sins. For instance, Boston? That was God judging Obama. But 9/11, well, yes, that took place on Bush's watch, but it was really God judging America for CLINTON'S sins...because he was a liberal, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that no party has ever come close to living up to the standards that Jesus set. So let's not act like any judgment is because of this or that...BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. It might be--and is almost certainly--just life taking place, chance and circumstance.
I imagine that if God wants to send a message, He can do it where the we won't miss the point.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteYou may be new here. I delete all comments that insult other readers. Argue the points vehemently, but ad hominem attacks get vaporized.
DeleteNow continue.
There are 1,817 predictions of future events in the Bible. Many of them have already come true, 100% accuracy, for 7,000 years. You are willingly ignorant if you do not accept the Holy Bible as a perfect book that God wrote. The Bible describes the judgment of Israel, many times, for their sins. God destryed Sodom and Gomorrah for their open Homosexuality. Where is it? JUDGED. God always punishes sin. How is he judging us as a nation, now? Through many enemies without and within. Through a broken economy, through allowing corruptimmoral politicians to rule over us. Thank God for a person like Michelle Bachman, with courage to speak out. Every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and answer for their sins. Thank God Jesus paid for my sins with His blood. You hsve no excuses, in God's eyes. Your mouth will be shut!
ReplyDeleteAre you saying the Bible was written 7,000 years ago?
DeleteChristianity: Celebrating the irony of a carpenter being nailed to a piece of wood for 2,000 years.
DeleteI deny your savior sir and say many millions have died a far more heinous death in his name then he supposedly did. What a narcissistic and cruel deity you believe in. I pity you.
As an gay atheist I find Steve Morris's comments insulting. His proselytizing comments detract from the rational conversation. I hope they will be deleted.
DeleteIt's people with views like yours demanding that they be imported wholesale into national politics that makes the USA the laughing stock of the educated world.
DeleteName one!
DeleteI find it truly terrifying that a country and culture as powerful as the US has politicians with such extreme beliefs. What will happen when one of these people eventually get to power?
ReplyDeleteThey already have - 'election' of 2000 ring any bells? That is precisely what opened the doors to all of these lunatics who couldn't have cared less about the sins & destrution under 'their' leader, who just so happened to be the right color. It's hilarious that any of them think they're going to heaven. They are truly very mentally ill individuals.
DeleteGod began making promises in the garden of Eden, for example that "The seed of the woman would bruise the serpents head" Jesus, God Almighty and the creator humbled himself and took on himself the body of a man, born of a virgin, the seed of the woman. If you read my book (which you can read for free at my web blg/site) I have maybe 100 prophecies, with their fulfillment, also. The book is called "The Coming Great Tribulation"
ReplyDeleteTo even argue about supposed predictions from a holy book that is rife with translation and transcription errors, filled with direct contradictions, and leveraged heavily off of earlier works (not to mention FAMOUSLY edited by committee at least twice), is to lend credence where there is none.
ReplyDeleteYou can SAY that those who don't follow YOUR way are doomed, damned or otherwise in trouble, but so can anyone. So, let us instead talk facts. Besides, if we were to use the bible as sole source for this discussion, I would only need to point out that no man can truly know what is in the mind our heart of God, much less claim that he understands why certain ”punishments” took place.
Mankind created God in his image, not the other way around. The universe is far more beautiful and interesting than any man has yet dreamed, and indeed moreso than any ”god” could create.
Good luck with your damning though. I'll have none of it, thanks.
Or better yet just ignore him. Fundies feed on the attention they get from arguments, they live for the opportunity to defend their faith.
DeleteGood advice.
DeleteThank you fir the photo of the bloodwood tree. I never heard of it. God has made so many things, we have not even found them all yet. He shows in His creation His power as a designer and creator. And we worship the "creation" instead of the creator.
ReplyDeleteSteve Morris, I am intrigued that you know that God is punishing us and exactly what She is punishing us for. Many scholars, mystics, saints and sinners have tried and failed to reach your level. How have you become so special in God's eyes?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I was under the impression that God's destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was because they broke powerful hospitality laws, laws that protected travelers and promoted trade. But you say that She was more upset by the victimless "crime" of homosexuality. Why are robbery, torture and murder lesser crimes in her eyes?
Finally, if God loves us more than I love my son, how can She so gleefully judge us and separate from some of us for eternity? Is there something about love I don't understand?
To the list of "lesser crimes" , I would like to include genocide.
Delete--
Sometimes the comment section is not profitable, but damn! it is entertaining.
To Norm. There is a book you can get at the dollar store that explains it all. If you will read it, it will answer your questions. It is called "The Holy Bible" KJV 1611 edition. Only cost $1.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Steve
Steve,
DeleteIf God created us in all our wonderful diversity -- including different strengths, abilities, cultures, and genders -- delighting in Her creation and welcoming us with joy like the father of the prodigal son, why does she insist we come to Her through an archaic, 400 year old translation?
Being fairly intelligent, I could wade through it. Others would have a much harder time. Does this mean that God loves me more than illiterate people?
Why does God tempt me with the NRSV, CEV, and The Message? Is the New Jerusalem Bible Satan's work?
Seriously Steve, do you and Michele think that piling on rule after rule as modern day Pharisees, is loving your neighbor? Faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love. (I know your version says "charity", but the Greek says "agape", which is a love of the person as they are, warts and bad gas and all.) Ask yourself if your evangelizing or driving people from God.
You're so hung up about sex. Jesus was hung up about poverty, hunger, abuse, sickness, the imprisoned and giving to God what is God's.
Michele isn't using her prayers to reach out to God and others. She's using them to proclaim her superiority. She's not humbling herself, she's exalting herself.
Anyone want to read another 30 pages? No? I'll stop here.
Okay, I'm calling "troll" on Steve Morris. Let's not feed him any longer.
ReplyDelete