tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post7369376980379174522..comments2024-03-28T23:22:41.774-05:00Comments on TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): Jose Saramago - King of the Comma Splice ?Minnesotastanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-65790889050889561522012-09-11T13:09:32.683-05:002012-09-11T13:09:32.683-05:00One of my favorite books... I loved it and almost ...One of my favorite books... I loved it and almost missed my bus stop a couple of times while reading it.<br /><br />I didn't find it exhausting but I think it could be because the original language in which the book was written -Portuguese- is closer to the language I read it in -Spanish, my mother tongue.satrinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13189275275489423079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-52687629130700465682012-05-03T16:00:13.911-05:002012-05-03T16:00:13.911-05:00I agree. I'm about six pages into the book and...I agree. I'm about six pages into the book and find it a big headache. I probably won't go much further. I don't mind long sentences if they're coherent, but Saramago's use of the comma makes for painful reading. <br /><br />I keep thinking, analyzing the prose, that if he had actually punctuated it properly, it simply may not have turned out to seem that special of a story in the eyes of people who like 'difficult books' and think that difficulty alone makes fine literature.<br /><br />On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of Celine, who uses ellipses to great and hilarious effect--and coherently--and a big fan of Hemingway and Margeurite Duras too, both of whom are known for turning grammar on its head. I'm not, though, a fan of Cormac McCarthy, whom I suspect is a bit of a Hemingway wannabe without a truly idiosyncratic poetic sense of his own and--at least it seems so from this brief excerpt you provided--uses difficulty as a bit of a shield or pose (sorry, guys, I know he's sacrosanct to many).<br /><br />I found this blog by googling 'jose saramago blindness use of commas' because I wondered if, despite his Nobel status, there were others who saw through this style that strikes me as done in the service of the ego and not in the service of the story. <br /><br />I'm glad to know that there are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-401655503359338512011-04-23T01:33:43.264-05:002011-04-23T01:33:43.264-05:00I could read this, and there are definitely pleasu...I could read this, and there are definitely pleasures to be found in his writing, but, but, but, it's like slogging through waist deep mud. <br /><br />I kept looking ahead to see when chapters would end, so I could get a break. Maybe it's too much whining about style, but I wish I could find some justification for making the reader and his poor eyes work so much harder than necessary.<br /><br />Conventional punctuation evolved for a reason, and sure you can ignore all convention and still write in a way that's understandable, but you'd better have a bloody good reason to do so.<br /><br />I read "The Cave" and liked the characters, and especially the ironic comments on life, which had me laughing out loud at times. Saramago in this book was like your wise old uncle telling you a story with plenty of commentary. <br /><br />These bits, which enlivened the book immensely, made the book worth reading. I'd love to go back and find some of them again, but there's no way I'm heading back into that rock solid block of prose without dynamite and a pick axe.<br /><br />I wish some publisher would just say, "Ok, now he's dead, we can go ahead and punctuate the thing properly and publish something people can read." He was a renowned pessimist and atheist, so he can hardly complain.Hardbeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-54439253062543919392010-06-21T17:05:33.393-05:002010-06-21T17:05:33.393-05:00My book-club read this a few months ago, and I cou...My book-club read this a few months ago, and I could not read past the first chapter for this very reason. I think the lack of quotation marks bothered me even more than the epic-length sentences. <br /><br />I was not enjoying myself, and I refused to put up with such nonsense for an entire book, no matter how compelling the plot. <br /><br />dragonmamma/naomiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-75060066234021968992010-06-20T19:41:17.382-05:002010-06-20T19:41:17.382-05:00I've been told that this is commonly how it...I've been told that this is commonly how it's done in French.squintnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-70324421525504580682010-06-19T10:45:57.102-05:002010-06-19T10:45:57.102-05:00another thing, most of the sharpness and beauty of...another thing, most of the sharpness and beauty of his style is lost in translation. one can never translate how certain words feel in the original language.<br />that's why mccarthy feels so much more fluid and natural to an english speaker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-50226768629066307162010-06-19T10:40:39.132-05:002010-06-19T10:40:39.132-05:00his style is amazing. it's hard for the first ...his style is amazing. it's hard for the first pages only, then you get the hang of it. reading it in english is a bit more difficult because the word "I" is capitalized.<br /><br />anyway, i think he tries to emulate someone really telling a story, i mean orally. that's why his writing is so fluid and loose and spiral-ish.<br /><br />there was a time the only thing i could read were Saramago's books.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-80546911896904036502009-06-04T19:59:48.840-05:002009-06-04T19:59:48.840-05:00I also recently read this book and blogged a revie...I also recently read this book and <a href="http://pederhanson.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/ensaio-sobre-a-cegueira-essay-on-blindness/" rel="nofollow">blogged a review</a>. I remember thinking that Saramago's style added to the confusion of the whole society-going-blind thing. I'm not sure I'd speak in rational clauses and sentences if I were watching (hearing?) the end of civilization either.<br /><br />But later when I learned 'twas his natural writing style I was less impressed. I've heard good things about his other books (commented here as well) but it may be a while before I read one again.<br /><br />Oh, <b>and</b> I got an interesting <a href="http://pederhanson.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/ensaio-sobre-a-cegueira-essay-on-blindness/#comment-69" rel="nofollow">comment</a> from a representative of the <a href="http://www.padnfb.org/" rel="nofollow">Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind</a> informing me how offensive this book and subsequent movie are to blind people. The commenter made interesting points, but I maintain the book was not intended to disparage the visually-impaired.<br /><br />Big fan of the site, go Midwestern bloggers!Peder with a Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02517167031786032601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-29911097267461713592009-06-03T05:32:51.288-05:002009-06-03T05:32:51.288-05:00BTW, if you want to read something lighter by Sara...BTW, if you want to read something lighter by Saramago, try "All the Names".esquilinhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06349430665663164441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-3599883894331322132009-06-03T05:32:09.300-05:002009-06-03T05:32:09.300-05:00I agree with Jorge. Once you get used to the style...I agree with Jorge. Once you get used to the style, it's not that difficult and it's actually quite enjoyable.<br />But I think in English it gets more difficult in the dialogs, because the "I" is always in capitals (whether there's a speaker change or not), which doesn't happen in Portuguese.esquilinhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06349430665663164441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-67235272687161293862009-06-02T12:03:59.424-05:002009-06-02T12:03:59.424-05:00You might be interested in this bit from Saramago'...You might be interested in this bit from Saramago's latest novel, Death with Interruptions. Death writes a letter to the world at large, and of course it's written in Saramago's style, which elicits this outraged response (also--ha ha--in Saramago's style):<br /><br />"According to the authorized opinion of a grammarian consulted by the newspaper, death had simply failed to master even the rudiments of the art of writing. And then, he said, there's the calligraphy, which is strangely irregular, it's as if it combined all the known ways, both possible and aberrant, of forming letters of the latin alphabet, as if each had been written by a different person, but that could be forgiven, one could even consider it a minor defect given the chaotic syntax, the absence of full stops, the complete lack of very necessary parentheses, the obsessive elimination of paragraphs, the random use of commas and, most unforgivable sin of all, the intentional and almost diabolical abolition of the capital letter, which, you can imagine, is even omitted from the actual signature of the letter and replaced by a lower-case d. It was a disgrace, an insult, the grammarian went on, asking, If death, who has had the priceless privilege of seeing the great literary geniuses of the past, writes like this, what of our children if they choose to imitate such a philological monstrosity, on the excuse that, considering how long death has been around, she should know everything there is to know about all branches of knowledge."<br /><br />Me, I love Saramago's cool, ironic and utterly original style. As Jorge says, if you can release yourself to it (easier for some than others, of course), there are so many pleasures to be discovered.Philip Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03621007062583577152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-72256607416301736272009-06-02T06:57:21.443-05:002009-06-02T06:57:21.443-05:00not sure 'brilliant' would be my choice of words f...not sure 'brilliant' would be my choice of words for that mess. Anyone who cared about their reader would do much better breaking that monstrosity down into multiple sentences (and perhaps paragraphs)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14797317910988407423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-21130288977205563442009-06-02T05:34:29.868-05:002009-06-02T05:34:29.868-05:00It's definitely not an easy read, but it it thorou...It's definitely not an easy read, but it it thoroughly enjoyable once you get used to it. The simple way he twists the reader around and forces him to read every word and to go back several pages to check if the same person is still speaking of the same situation...it's brilliant :)Jorgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202895059876036864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-57230233672063860472009-06-02T02:01:54.874-05:002009-06-02T02:01:54.874-05:00Yes. Saramago is just as difficult to read in Port...Yes. Saramago is just as difficult to read in Portuguese. In fact that's the main reason why I've only read one book from him. I didn't have the courage to read another one. :) Alas, since he has some great plots and does master social critique.<br /><br />I'm not alone, many Portuguese (usual readers) do not read Saramago, but there are some fans who love his kind of writing.MJhttp://macaoquadrado.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-63807088432051151462009-06-01T23:42:20.588-05:002009-06-01T23:42:20.588-05:00I gave up trying to read this. García Márquez doe...I gave up trying to read this. García Márquez does amazing things with language, which, as you mention, can be lyrical, even magical. I wonder if Saramago is as difficult to read in Portuguese.Barbwirenoreply@blogger.com