tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post2787078925018277339..comments2024-03-18T21:26:34.716-05:00Comments on TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): New evidence supports/denies the "Solutrean hypothesis" - updated many timesMinnesotastanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-79405736495415348822017-03-22T09:42:23.350-05:002017-03-22T09:42:23.350-05:00article says that "people arrived in australi...article says that "people arrived in australia some 60k hears ago and they did not walk" 60000 years ago australia may have been connected to asia via indonesia ,malayasia etc just as there were the doglands land mass connecting uk with mainland europeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-54369235735051987462016-09-07T08:33:55.716-05:002016-09-07T08:33:55.716-05:00It is the bane of the Internet that to explore int...It is the bane of the Internet that to explore interesting theories like the Solutrean Hypothesis one must suffer the scourge of political correctness and the invective it engenders.William N Greerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567648612736632720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-2274510732885949942016-08-25T07:38:03.632-05:002016-08-25T07:38:03.632-05:00I tip my hat to a mind that can encompass the whit...I tip my hat to a mind that can encompass the white guilt subject with such down-home eloquence. I concur with all of your points and sentiments. It's refreshing to read such a concise refutation. Thanks, I'm going to pass it around. It's like finding a gem that's not in-the-rough but already faceted and polished for the amazed sleuth of history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-76286154145228335302016-08-17T02:53:08.971-05:002016-08-17T02:53:08.971-05:00The Giants were here first before humans arrived! ...The Giants were here first before humans arrived! heh! Sorry, just had to add that. "Si te cah" is the name given to them by the Paiutes.<br />All this hostility is taking the fun out of learning about the Solutreans.GogtheRobothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12429391499813310378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-2079554405231584162016-06-30T17:55:09.484-05:002016-06-30T17:55:09.484-05:00Simple point of fact here, but the comment as post...Simple point of fact here, but the comment as posted by "Matt Anderson" on June of 2016 is a Copy/Paste of another comment posted on a blog by a "John Massey" in 2014. "... skewered them good and proper" is what struck a memory chord with me. I'd read that somewhere before on this issue, sure enough... Regrettably, this issue suffers from ideological agenda on BOTH sides. You have white power types who want to flog Solutrean because it lines up with some racial superiority worldview, likewise, you have people who stridently oppose Solutrean by virtue of that association. Note, however, that the comment "Matt Anderson" copied and reposted is essentially devoid of meaningful substance. It declares victory a few times, insists it's a settled matter and makes citation of a study, but the study itself merely asserts that Solutrean has been 'debunked' because of the absence of European DNA in Anzick-1. Is that compelling logic? Of course not. There are a half-dozen glaring flaws with that thesis. First, while outgroups will inevitably interbreed given enough time and close enough proximity, the human footprint on the continent at that time was VERY light. For the very same reason we don't find Viking DNA in Canadian First Nation peoples (even though they were unarguably there) explains how there may not have been European Haplogroups present in Anzick-1 (who came from Montana, BTW- quite a ways away from the east coast) <br /><br />This matter is not settled and unfortunately, it may never be settled. There just may never be a smoking gun beyond fragmentary archaeological indicators... and even if we found a smoking gun, with agendas being what they are, it's very likely it would meet with the same kind of blind, mindless resistance that has people copying and pasting the same blog comments, two years later. Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06957250757577530230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-54638118121874734282016-06-05T20:53:38.968-05:002016-06-05T20:53:38.968-05:00I just saw this nonsense about Europeans killing N...I just saw this nonsense about Europeans killing Native Americans and boo hoo blahblahblah written by "white girl" which I think I'm responding to. <br /><br />Gee, I wonder if Europeans STILL blame MY people, Tatars, for spreading the plague and killing about 1/3 of them? Janibeg catapulted a plague ridden dead Tatar onto a Genoese ship, knowing it would spread. And oh, it spread. 1/3 of Europeans died due to what Janibeg did. Do Europeans blame the Tatars for this today? No, they don't even freaking KNOW the details because it isn't brainwashed into them. Nor would you find ONE Tatar that feels guilty over the genocide - and OH, it was DELIBERATE. Janibeg and the rest knew it spread and how to spread it. <br /><br />One other detail, take it back 15 thou years ago, Tatars, MY people, are related to the Native Americans. HA - what an irony if someone is STOOOOPID enough to find some "meaning" in any of this. <br /><br />Native Americans were NOT some peaceful huge bunch of people. They fought each other, conquered each other, wiped each other out and so forth. So someone "white girl" she signed it, bemoans how much they lost? Assuming the mantle of "white guilt" so she can feel superior? Or righteous? HA. <br /><br />What about how much the Europeans lost when they were conquered by a Semitic foreign religion, christianity, convert or die and LOST their heritage to that wretched belief system that threw Europe into the dark ages? What about that loss. What about the next loss to that wretched monotheistic tyranny that most of MY people suffered, conversion to Islam for most of us (not all) - more convert or die? <br /><br />I am SICK of hearing about how "bad" the Europeans are. I don't much like KKK and that bunch cuz they don't like me (I'm the wrong race) - but I can see their POINT in this. <br /><br />People came into the N. American and S. American landmass from BOTH ENDS, east and west. It was way earlier than 15 thou years ago. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-4282814160423945032016-06-05T20:39:16.844-05:002016-06-05T20:39:16.844-05:00There were people in the Americas long before 15,0...There were people in the Americas long before 15,000 years ago. there was a special, forgot channel but "Who Really Discovered America" was the title of it. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-65671284900580868822016-06-05T04:48:31.553-05:002016-06-05T04:48:31.553-05:00I've visited the Meadowcroft Rock Shelter and ...I've visited the Meadowcroft Rock Shelter and believe that it is authentic, dating back 17+ thousand years.jennifer from pittsburghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12188641511998447474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-34978855749326176592016-06-04T16:50:52.272-05:002016-06-04T16:50:52.272-05:00Matt, you are apparently new to this blog, so I...Matt, you are apparently new to this blog, so I'll explain that I curate every comment and delete all that include language consisting of an ad hominem attack on another commenter. Even if I agree with your sentiment.Minnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-48000953666206640742016-06-04T15:25:27.322-05:002016-06-04T15:25:27.322-05:00In the words of Razib Khan: “On the order of ~15,0...In the words of Razib Khan: “On the order of ~15,000 years ago a small group of Siberians crossed over Berengia into the New World. Their descendants are the various indigenous populations of the Americas which span the expanse from the Canadian Arctic down to Patagonia.” End of story. No Solutreans, no magic fairies, no space aliens.<br /><br />Razib has been talking to Pontus Skoglund, one of the authors of the paper.<br /><br />Dienekes Pontikos agrees.<br /><br />They are too polite and careful to say it in so many words, so I will – the Solutrean Hypothesis is dead and buried. The proponents will flop around for a while with increasingly bizarre, distorted versions that they try to make fit the data, but it’s a futile rear-guard action. Pontus Skoglund and his mates have skewered them good and proper.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00630777204653128018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-78429229472361730412016-06-04T15:23:21.639-05:002016-06-04T15:23:21.639-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00630777204653128018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-77584195400342570822016-06-04T15:19:36.314-05:002016-06-04T15:19:36.314-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00630777204653128018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-2450927061303554522016-05-25T20:01:40.663-05:002016-05-25T20:01:40.663-05:00The latest evidence, hard proof via DNA shows two ...The latest evidence, hard proof via DNA shows two distinct BIG waves of humans out of Africa. By that, I mean modern humans - not H.erectus or anything earlier. H. erectus did come to EuroAsia MUCH earlier on, maybe 2 million years ago. Would they be called human? I don't know. But I'm not including that. I refer to two more recent waves of HUMANS, 100 thou years give or take; not millions. <br /><br />Keep in mind, humans in "Africa" way back 100 thou years ago does not mean that they looked like modern Africans look today. Perhaps that's the problem with naming the continents with their modern names when discussing any of this! If you say "found in Europe" people laypeople, think "oh, white." If you say "found in Africa" laypeople think "oh, black." Well - WRONG. <br /><br />Anyway, one wave results in ALL Euro-Asians, including Native Americans. The other wave results in Africans, including the Australian aborigines. The first wave has admixture of Neanderthal and Denisova DNA - these are ALL Europeans/Asians including Native Americans. The other one does NOT have any of this mixture; the Africans or perhaps just the subSaharan ones since the more Northern Africans are mixed these days. <br /><br />One can postulate that there are TWO races of humans if you want to divide it that way. It does make some kind of sense if you look at distinct differences, the way any scientist would look at some other species of animals while categorizing them. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-36041170962562970382016-05-25T19:45:12.121-05:002016-05-25T19:45:12.121-05:00I don't think anyone has the "right"...I don't think anyone has the "right" to claim such scientific finds - and the pity is that they ALL see it in terms of MY MY MY - my race, my ancestors, etc. blahblah. I'm Tatar. THAT long ago, the Native Americans and Altaic people were the same people. So then, do I have a "right" to claim these finds as mine? I was born in the USA, but my parents were from the USSR. It's laughable to think I'd claim these bones as mine. <br /><br />Unfortunately, when Native tribes make these claims, science gets halted and banned. That also should not be allowed. NOBODY has a "right" to these ancient finds or bones. NOBODY. <br /><br />The white nationalists should grasp the concept that 20 thousand years ago, the H.sapien and Neanderthal mixtures that inhabited EuroAsia were NOT the same people, or even recognizable as the same people, as the people that come from these countries today. I understand why they are doing that - it's due to discrimination against white people this time. It's a reaction to it.<br /><br />They can sort of tell what they looked like from the skulls - sort of. If anything, this should be a moment of awe at how humans got themselves all over the place so long ago. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-88188990893210884842016-05-25T14:33:49.552-05:002016-05-25T14:33:49.552-05:00Just returned from a visit with Dr. Al Goodyear an...Just returned from a visit with Dr. Al Goodyear and his folks at "The Topper Site" in South Carolina. Documented, dated by the best available science, Pre-Clovis artifacts found at a Chert quarry have been robustly tested and are found to be 50,000 years old +. In fact, charcoal remnants so old that Radio Carbon dating is impossible found in the same layer have proven the case for human occupation at the site . It is ,in fact, a tool manufacturing site of the first magnitude, It is located on the banks of the Savannah River in S.C.. It is interesting to note that more Clovis and Pre-Clovis artifacts have now been found of the East coast of the U.S.A.than all of the rest of the country. I know not what this means, but it definitely means something.Dr. Goodyear will publish a definitive paper very soon, but his find (The Topper Site) has been visited and observed by many national and international academe professionals and many of the artifacts examined in situ and in the lab.<br /> We now have definitive evidence of human endeavor in tool making in several locations that predate any known location/dig site in America and very closely coincides with the Peruvian finds. <br /> American Archeology of the past has been proven incorrect and must now be adjusted to accommodate a large population of folks 50 to 60,000 yrs. ago. We now know they were here. The Topper site has a proven time line that demonstrates continuous occupation from just awhile ago to a very, very long time ago. <br />g Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-33957302242429586452016-05-16T12:53:46.322-05:002016-05-16T12:53:46.322-05:00I agree with John Long! Hate gets us nowhere. One ...I agree with John Long! Hate gets us nowhere. One family!Laura WLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-76365202437613191892016-02-28T20:08:57.726-06:002016-02-28T20:08:57.726-06:00It is no different from the Wolpoff versus Stringe...It is no different from the Wolpoff versus Stringer bs. Turns out, genetics proves Wolpoff right and he got trashed and even slandered and misrepresented quite a bit at the time. <br /><br />ALL Euroasians (non-Africans) have H. sapiens, Neanderthal and Denisovich admixture and at least with the Neanderthal, 4 specific genes are known well, like the MC1R gene. Africans do not have this combination unless they got it much much later from mixing with those who do, i.e., mixing with Europeans or Asians. By Euroasian, that includes ALL Native "indian" Americans, polynesians, etc. Australian aborginies and Negroes are lumped into the African group that does not have this admixture of neanderthal and denisovich. <br /><br />So one might say that there are 2 races of man on the planet: Africans and non-Africans - and oh yeah, the genes show this. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-32315826920634027322016-02-28T19:51:59.492-06:002016-02-28T19:51:59.492-06:00Ahem, whether people came here via the landmass we...Ahem, whether people came here via the landmass we now call Europe, or via the place we now call Asia - it just shows that humans got to Americas via both ends. They were what we'd call Euroasians. That would include Polynesians, who also got here, along with the early Japanese who got to parts of S. America. <br /><br />In case anyone wonders, this would not account for differences in appearance SO many years later, when these Natives were discovered by people in more modern times since they'd have diversified after all those thousands of years. Tani Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313089111768973661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-89200294538034512522015-11-26T18:42:44.207-06:002015-11-26T18:42:44.207-06:00Considering the fact that mitochondrial Eve & ...Considering the fact that mitochondrial Eve & chromosomal Adam both did not come from South Africa...you are incorrect also. There is new scientific evidence that we all in fact did not originate in Africa. Sorry to burst your bubble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-68331982177761532602015-07-21T18:39:05.097-05:002015-07-21T18:39:05.097-05:00Steve, it seems to me that you're the only one...Steve, it seems to me that you're the only one worried about the races. The fact is, the Solutreans were likely here first--end of story--only racists would deny facts just because they're inconvenient to someone's racial identity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-70153979093097115562015-04-12T03:03:12.775-05:002015-04-12T03:03:12.775-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-3143552424608607312015-03-12T06:20:26.101-05:002015-03-12T06:20:26.101-05:00Chris V. here again. The weird idea that people li...Chris V. here again. The weird idea that people living now in the 21st century, who can trace their lineage back to people living in North America 500 years ago (aka. "Indians, Native Americans, early illegal immigrants, etc,") having a "Right" to any human remains or artifacts found in North America that are 1000, 5000, 10000,or 15000 years old, is the mental and legal equivalent to me saying that I have a "Right" any human remains or artifacts found in Northern Europe that are 1000, 5000, 10000, or 15000 years old, simply because I can trace my lineage back to people that were living in Northern Europe 500 years ago. See what I am sayin, catch my drift. comprende???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-54716946406459813642015-02-02T15:02:35.482-06:002015-02-02T15:02:35.482-06:00MINNESOTASTAN---The Anzick boy being found along w...MINNESOTASTAN---The Anzick boy being found along with Clovis Points ( they weren't found together but in the same pile of back how pilings, to be accurate) is not evidence of the boy being of the Clovis people. It is CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence of the boy being of the Clovis people. <br /><br />The boy could have been a member of a group that had a mix of Asiatic peoples and Clovis people. It could have been a group of Asiatics that had learned the Clovis spear point tech. from Clovis people.<br /><br />Just as the Solutrean Laurel Leaf spear point found underwater 60 miles off the present Virginia coast line in the same dredge load as Mastodon bones is circumstantial evidence of Solutrean presence 17,000 to 22,000 years BP.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-15355237453551870742015-02-02T14:48:06.398-06:002015-02-02T14:48:06.398-06:00Yeah, AND? When has anyone disputed the claim that...Yeah, AND? When has anyone disputed the claim that the Indians/"Native" Americans were descended from Asiatics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4912713243046142041.post-39633230082695062332014-12-01T17:06:18.188-06:002014-12-01T17:06:18.188-06:00And this at AAAS:
"If correct, the findings ...And this at AAAS:<br /><br />"If correct, the findings refute the Solutrean hypothesis, which postulates that ancient migrants from Western Europe founded the Clovis culture. The data also undermine contentions that today’s Native Americans descend from later migrants to the Americas, rather than from the earlier Paleoindians. And that could help tribes that want to claim and rebury ancient American skeletons such as that of the 9400-year-old Kennewick Man from Washington state."<br /><br />http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2014/02/native-americans-descend-ancient-montana-boyMinnesotastanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382888179579245181noreply@blogger.com